Forum to discuss all matters relating to the MPC1000 and MPC2500 operating systems created by 'JJ' (all versions).
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By MalaKai Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:10 pm
* It's difficult to know where I should be posting this, whether in here or the 2500 area or the 'MPC1000 RAM and CF card Recommendations' subforum..

I'll try to make this short and to the point:

In the past I've used a MPC 1000 with OS2XL. I got lucky and found that this Komputer Bay 32 GB CF card worked perfectly:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NDEWWW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I may have even mentioned this in the behemoth memory and storage thread, where it was generally found that Komputer Bay products (particularly RAM) weren't working for some.

Eventually I broke the front CF pins on the 1000 and just decided to put a hard drive in there. This was when CF cards were still relatively more expensive than they are now in 2017.


Later I spent a year or so using a 2000XL then decided to get a 2500 with XLCD & OS128SP for main studio use (with the 1000 as a trusty backup/road and gigging companion).

Same 32 GB Komputer Bay CF card works perfectly in the 2500 front slot. I haven't done anything inside the machine yet to expand storage capacity. I do have the CF to IDE adapter which folks have been using as an alternative & cheaper form of SSD (with some issues like having to switch jumpers, etc. CD drive not working and other nuances I'm still trying to figure out)...

Since I like the speed of CF over mechanical hard drive I want to increase storage capacity, and at this point prices are so low for things compared with ~ 7-8 years ago that I might as well TOTALLY max out the storage.

As part of this I first wanted to see if a 128 GB CF card would work in the front CF reader. So I buy the Komputer Bay 128 GB version of the same type of card I was using (600x). The card came and it looked the same as the 32 GB version except it was UDMA 7 rather than UDMA 6 (which it's advertised as). The card did not work, and whether the UDMA # had anything to do with it I'm unsure of, but I seem to recall reading that UDMA 7 cards were either tricky or for the most part not working. For that matter some posts state trouble with UDMA 6 and/or anything larger than 32 GB. So whether UDMA # makes any difference or it's strictly the amount of space that one can fit into the front slot remains a mystery.. I'm almost 90% sure the 64 GB UMDA 6 Komputer Bay 600x CF card would work but after sending back the 128 GB card and getting a refund I haven't bought one to test it..

So in the background to all this there's still people experimenting with increasing storage internally, and using the IDE to CF adapter to SD to MicroSD, etc.

Recently the JJOS YouTube channel dropped this video:



This shows 64 GB working in the front slot using a MicroSD to CF adapter. The video also links to another video showing a similar Type I adapter reading 128 GB (but it doesn't specify if it's in the front slot or inside the machine).

SO ON TO THE MAIN QUESTION:

Now, in 2017, who knows for certain what the maximum total storage capacity is on 1000/2500??

If you can use 128 GB in front panel AND inside that would total 256 GB minus whatever the format takes out, which would probably be around 200 GB or so..

Has anyone done this? Completely maxed out the storage..

It also seems pertinent to mention that at this point the MicroSD/CF adapter method seems like the way to go.

As far as I can tell Micro SD XC 1 (UHS-1) type cards *should* work. And of course Type I MicroSD to CF adapters..

Ideally, having two adapter cards, one inside and one in the front slot with compatible MicroSD cards would seem perfect, as finding the right and largest capacity CF cards is somewhat of a **** shoot to say the least..

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I guess I didn't really make this short and to the point. A lot of common knowledge seems to be a slightly outdated on this issue. It combines JJOS and SSD mods and 'CF card Recommendations,' hence not knowing quite where to post it. :WTF:

Knowledgeable heads chime in.. :smoker:
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By MalaKai Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:42 pm
* Couple new points:

The linked video to the original video DOES seem to show MEMORY CARD (which would only be front slot right?) and the person is using CF -> SD -> MicroSD.

I don't see why internally the IDE -> CF -> MicroSD wouldn't work, as the IDE -> CF -> SD -> MicroSD seems to.

This is all very confusing lol :hmmm:

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By MalaKai Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:23 am
Ok, so this is basically a follow-up to this post from a couple years back:

http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=172085&start=15

I decided to go ahead and order 2 of the adapters: (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F6UWL1O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

and 2 MicroSD 128 GB cards: (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010Q57S62/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which include the SD to MicroSD adapters.


I'm going:

CF -> SD -> MicroSD in the front slot

IDE -> CF -> SD -> MicroSD interally

on MPC 2500 XLCD running OS128SP.

~ 40 bucks with the refund from the non-working 128 GB CF card, so if it doesn't work I have an extra card and adapter to use for something else.. Theoretically if this does work I think it should come out to 240 GB total space :shock:. At this point might as well, internal for sample libraries and front slot for saving projects. I'm doing it for science. Will report back.
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By Psychedelic Schizophrenic Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:02 pm
Kudos to MalaKai for your extended research on this :worthy: , it is a very interesting topic (well to me anyhow :lol:) the only issue I can foresee is that the CPU architecture that the MPC uses, wouldn't be able to tale the difference between the SD cards in front compact card slot and the internal slot.

Basically the SD card adapter is a passive device, i.e. it does nothing but provide a set of contact points bridging those on the Micro SD card to those on the Micro SD card adaptor. My gut feeling is it will pick up both as Memory Cards and won't be able to distinguish the different slots so it will only show up as one memory card device instead of a memory card and a internal memory card.

The only way round would be to try mounting the internal Micro SD Card as a virtual hard drive, if the MPC can pick this virtual hard drive up then it will be able to distinguish the different slots and show both Micro SD Cards up and it will be possible to do this ultimate max storage mod :-D .

If you need help or some advice then don't be afraid to ask 8)
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By MalaKai Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:49 am
At the end of the day no one really NEEDS all that space.

But if I ever need to go back to a beat I made 6 years ago to track out the stems, having it immediately available would be nice. That's one reason it might be useful to have storage completely maxed out. Also you can go completely wild with sampling and just accumulate gigabytes and gigabytes of needle drops and stuff to go back to later, and not have to worry about space. Less frequent backups too.
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By Psychedelic Schizophrenic Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:11 pm
Yeah that true and if it works, its going to take a lifetime or 3 to fill it right up. I'm looking forward to the results :-D
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By MalaKai Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:38 am
Update:

I finally got the CF to SD adapter cards in from China. I'm getting all excited. I start the process and take pictures and start writing out all the procedures I'm doing. I go to unscrew the 2500 front panel, lo and behold I do not have the HDM-10 Lol.

For the time being, I'm sharing thoughts and speculation on the project so far, including going through the front slot and essentially peer-reviewing the (by now) already established procedure of maximizing space through the front slot. Spoiler alert: it works.

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The working assumption is that Type I UDMA 6 CF should work in general, theoretically up to 128 GB per slot (external and internal by way of the 2.5" IDE -> CF adapter), minus what the formatting takes away, which should be around 200 GB total (or ~ 100 GB per slot). I checked and made sure that the CF to SD adapters support UDMA 6:

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The first thing I did was format both cards in FAT32 (original format for the MicroSD card is exFAT). To do this I'm using a CF -> USB adapter plugged into a Windows 7 computer & GUIFORMAT.exe, available at: http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm.

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I put one of the CF -> SD -> MicroSD combinations into the front slot and it is immediately recognized just as any other compatible CF card would be. I then format again within JJOS (MPC 2500 w/ XLCD is running JJOS128SP 1.09). Whether or not this is necessary I have no clue, but I'm guessing it wouldn't hurt. In either case (with or without this extra formatting), this is the result:

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Multiplying this by two, this would equal ~243.8 GB total, assuming internal slot would work as well.

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So, I've already gone this far. Without checking I have little doubt that loading, speed and everything should work fine through the front slot alone (which is a win if nothing else); I'm going to go ahead and get a HDM-10 to also test out the internal option as well. Here is where things could get weird. I had previously speculated that the internal IDE -> Frankenstein MicroSD combination might be slow for some as of yet unspecified reason. Or it could also completely work fine. Time will tell. When I get the HDM-10 I'm going to use the master CF slot on the 2.5" IDE -> CF adapter, for entirely sketchy reasons. Earlier posts on the subject seem to indicate that in either case (master or slave) the CD drive will no longer work? This is a grey area which needs more research. To be honest I don't use the CD drive anyway so it wouldn't be a big issue for me personally. As to whether it's supposed to be master or slave, I honestly have no clue, but for some reason I think it should be the master slot. Maybe someone can chime in here.
By HelgenX Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:53 pm
I just got one of those highest speed UDMA7 150mb/s 64gb cards from Toshiba, and it works sluggishly in the front panel. It loads slowly or just freezes my MPC 1000 which is annoying. Now I might not be able to bring it back. I'm pretty sure a 16gb should work, but I really need 32gb.
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By MalaKai Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:25 pm
MalaKai wrote:
In the past I've used a MPC 1000 with OS2XL. I got lucky and found that this Komputer Bay 32 GB CF card worked perfectly:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NDEWWW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1



This card has proven reliable in both the 1000 and 2500 for me personally. There is a speed limitation within the MPC itself also, so 1000X, 600X etc. doesn't really mean anything for practical purposes, in my experience either it works or it doesn't, and if it technically works but it freezes or is super slow it doesn't work. It might have something to do with your card being UDMA 7. This hasn't been proven but from what I've read it seems like this might be a general limiting factor.
By richie Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:15 am
It makes more sense to order the $8 dollar SD to CF adapter and then buy yourself a 64-128GB Micro SD card of a reputable brand which have faster nand memory than budget CF cards made years ago.

Personally, I've done this with a 64 gig card which works totally fine on JJ OS
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By MalaKai Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:22 am
Got a HDM-10, but discovered that the Syba Dual Compact Flash to 44 Pin IDE 2.5" Adapter Enclosure:

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DOES NOT WORK because the board is too long to allow the pins to connect to the HDM-10.

So the experiment is a partial fail. I had another CF to IDE adapter laying around and it fits, but I realized after plugging it in that the MPC didn't recognize it, and found out it was probably due to a missing pin.

Image

For this to work (and at this point I have every reason to believe it should), the CF to IDE adapter must have all 44 pins (see original SOLID-STATE HARD DRIVE MOD:HOW-TO thread: http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108588). Once you have it hooked up you should be able to simply stick it in the HDM-10 and it will "hang" but it seems sturdy enough to stay put and not become dis-attached.

I'm happy enough to have the front slot solution working for now, it gives me 4 times the amount of space I originally had. I'll either try another CF to IDE adapter sometime in the future, get a hard drive, or just leave it. For the time being I'm good with having tested out the general concept and putting all the relevant research together.
By twist1ne Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:29 pm
MalaKai, thank you for your research! I don't own a 2500 yet (until tomorrow!) but have used the 2000XL off and on in the past few years.

Researching your progress and links to other threads, I've assembled (2) SanDisk 128GB Micro SD cards and adapters like you have, plus the same SD card to 44-pin/IDE adapter this guy used for an internal 64GB hard drive mod (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmDFOp7nU90).

Hopefully I can test everything out this weekend. Sorry if this has been covered in a more recent thread, but I'm still interested to know if I could have a 128GB hard drive and 128GB memory card in the same machine.

I'd be more than happy with 64GB in either, as my (largely untapped) sample library is only about 20 GB.

I want to use some of the extra space to store a ton of wav files from when I personnaly backed up my cd collection, like 15 years ago.

We'll see how it goes...
By twist1ne Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:03 am
Quick update: It works! I had no issues installing the IDE-SD adapter and one 128GB card in the hard drive slot. Then, put the CF-SD adapter with the other 128GB card in the memory card slot.

Both drives formatted fine and each show ~121912MB free for about 242GB total. I loaded a few kits on the memory card and made a quick beat, then saved the entire memory to the hard drive. I cycled power and then loaded the project from the hard drive. Made a couple changes and then saved everything to the memory card, etc. No problems saving or loading between the two devices.

Final note....I'm on the Akai 1.24 O.S. so maybe this should be shared there too?

I haven't tried to use the CD drive for anything but the system recognizes it and I hear it spin up when I first turn the unit on.

Thanks again to all who contributed time and effort on this!