Bug reports & end-user support for Akai's MPC Software 'controllers' including the new MPC Studio 2, the MPC Touch, MPC Renaissance & original MPC Studio and MPC StudioB lack.
By aldred411 Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:36 am
Will def try new leads for the analog inputs ,I've tried two sets of leads ,I have had them for a while I think there hosa ,maybe ill record the noise I get and post it . I had a problem when I connected my motif but the noise was more of a hum and not a hiss.

Thing is I've ditch the analog outs and have just got the tb connected via USB and have my Mac mini out connected to the digital in , this works ok as I can rec the tb and my mac out but I'm getting some some of audio drop out it reminds me of this old bit crusher plug in that was in cubase ,sort of flanged ,it happens now and again like I'll be playing it and the sound starts to go odd then god back to normal
it happens to both the tb and say if ITunes is playing. Could be where it go's thur the digital convertor but I've never had a problem when I've connected just my laptop this way

I'll record it and post it
Do I need a sound cloud account to do that
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By SimonInAustralia Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:23 am
What sort of cable are you using for the analogue connection?

Are you getting any signal through the analogue connection, along with the noise?

The TB-3 outputs a 96kHz digital audio signal, so no idea what is happening with that in your Mac, and what it is outputting to MPC Software through the Renaissance, via SPDIF.


Also, having to set your MPC Software MIDI Clock output to MPC Public doesn't sound right.
By aldred411 Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:39 am
I've got one set of HOSA 1/4 to 1/4 says shielded audio tandem cable and I have another set that are RCA to 1/4 tried both in both ren inputs , there big thick cables I got them prob 10 years ago from my local pro music shop ,
Whilst writing I phoned the shop he said maybe the cables are unbalanced I'm gonna try a few more cables I've got like single guitar cables ,I've also got a Xlr to 1/4 on my speakers I'll try them , see if that works if it does then I'll buy a new set ,

Yes I can hear the tb along with the noise

The tb digital signal is going to the mac via USB the mac digital output is going to the ren sdif in between is a tos link to sdif converter ,if I select the tb in input in the ren ,monitor on I can here the tb ,if I disconnect this cable u can't hear the tb ,
I don't know why I get this disturbance in the signal but it only happens now and again and the audio buffer settings def improve or worsen the situation ,maybe the ren has issues processing the signal ,

Now if I was using another daw with audio channels I could set the tb to one of these ,would I hear the tb in real time coming out the computer outs, even if I didn't have the tb connected to speakers ,albeit with some latency ,or will it just record that audio in the background a bit like the motif xf with FireWire card ,so u can mix down the audio ,

I agree about the midi clock I was thinking why do I have set this port to make the transport work the transport is built into the damm unit and software ,it should work out the box , it's been like this from day 1 tho I was using the ren in cubase at the time ,think I used a setup guide off note repeat,
If I deselect it the transport won't work tho
By aldred411 Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:01 pm
:Sigh: I tried my XLR to 1/4 lead def better I can turn the rec gain knob up a lot more before I hear any noise ,if I adjust the rec knob and the input monitor ,and volume on tb I can get it right, sounds good

The noise is like if u had it switch to 48 phamton but not as bad ,say half ,could the switch be broken.

The digital problem def has something to do with audio buffer setting ,

So I just need new cables lol ,all that typing for nothing :WTF:

Any help controlling the tab via the mpc or max or both

Thanks
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By SimonInAustralia Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:08 pm
I think that the TB-3 analogue outputs are unbalanced, so an unbalanced 1/4" to 1/4" cable should work, such as normal guitar cables.

You should make sure to NOT turn on phantom power when using the XLR inputs on the Renaissance with a line level device such as the TB-3.

You should use the 1/4" middle hole of the Mic In inputs, with the switch set to Line, instead using them as XLR inputs.


In the MPC Software Preferences/Sync window, if you turn both Receive and Send to Off, and untick both MIDI Machine Control (MMC) Receive and Send, does the transport work?


I wouldn't run the TB-3 through the Mac Core Audio system, via USB, and back out to the Renaissance via SPDIF, but if you can get it working, there is nothing stopping you from using it.

I think that is just too many unknown variables, in terms of how it is handling the digital audio signal, and where it is running into problems with buffer settings/etc., whether in the Mac Core Audio system, or the MPC Renaissance audio driver, etc.

It might be better to run the TB-3 via USB into MPC Software as the audio interface for MPC Software, but if you can't aggregate the TB-3 and the Renaissance audio interface, you would be stuck with the TB-3 as your audio interface for MPC Software, for both audio input and output from MPC Software.
By aldred411 Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:27 pm
With you on not switching to 48 power was just trying to explain what it sounds like
The input is set to line
Right I just tried 2 different guitar leads which are unbalanced ,one black ring
There no good same as before
I tried a single 1/4 to 1/4 cable which came with my truth speakers same as above

The only cable that works well is the xlr to 1/4 cable that I got to use with my Behringer truths that's balanced , two black rings

So I need to buy some balanced cables , why shouldn't I use xlr it's a nice tight connection ?
So I should just get 1/4 to 1/4 balanced cables
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By SimonInAustralia Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:36 pm
Strange that unbalanced 1/4" are not working properly, I wonder if that is something that the Renaissance audio interface doesn't like, having the cold side of the balanced input shorted to ground by the unbalanced plug, or if the TB-3 is actually has a balanced output, and it doesn't like unbalanced cables.

Probably no problem using the XLR inputs on the Renaissance, just be careful with phantom power.

Do the XLR inputs work with the Mic/Line switch in the Line position?

If they only work in the Mic position, then it probably isn't going to be optimal in terms of gain staging, as the Mic input would be expecting a much lower level signal than a Line input.

If you can set it to Line, and use the XLR input, it should be fine.

If you can only set it to Mic, to use the XLR input, it will probably work fine, but you might not be able to run the TB-3 at full volume, and in turning the volume down, you are not getting an optimal signal to noise ratio, but if it works OK, and you don't notice it, it might not be a problem.
By aldred411 Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:00 pm
Ok done your sync settings and it worked , now to get the tb and max synced
Now I've set receive to midi clock ,send to on
This make the tb work transport wise
I have sent the clock to port max port a
I want the arp and step sequencer in the max to work
I don't need to send it to the tb
Mmc is just set to receive

Right every thing seems to work now I can also control the tb from the max and the pads .

If I use the tb for the sound card is there any pros over the ren
The tb has no inputs could I still use the ren inputs
Cause I like sampling from films off my computer or iTunes
Cheers for clearing that up for me Simon ,massive help
By aldred411 Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:09 pm
Yes the xlr work whilst set to line ,maybe I'll just buy some 1/4 as this lead is off my speaker any way
Had this problem with these cables on the motif but didn't bother investigating

I take it maybe the TB is a better sound card
Can't I select output tb and input ren under the mac audio settings and mpc settings to use them
But to be fair new cable would allow me to use the tb via audio inputs I could then just route Mac mini via the optical this has always worked fine on its own only had problems when I ran the he tb into it
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By Airyck Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:11 pm
What you're probably hearing is a digital jitter. When you have a whole bunch of different digital clock signals that are not locked together it's going to get a bunch of timing errors and you'll end up with reproductions of the samples in-between the ones you're supposed to be hearing.

The problem is that you're going digital, to digital, to digital. You need some sort of master clock that everything locks to. You're better off if at all possible going directly from the TB-3 to the Ren instead of going from the TB-3 to the Mac to the Ren. I personally use a TC-Electronics BM2 DAC as my master clock when I'm dealing with a bunch of digital signals but honestly I try and use them only when necessary (ie recording the final output, or if the analog signal sounds bad).

If you previously had no issues sampling directly from the Mac with your digital toslink output then stick with that setup but instead switch the Ren soundcard inputs to the TB-3 (USB audio) input when you need to record it. You could always use the 1/4inch inputs on the Ren for monitoring while you create with the TB-3 then switch to the TB-3 USB audio input in the Ren prefs when you're ready to record it.
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By SimonInAustralia Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:13 pm
With the MIDI Clock settings, it really depends on what you want to be the master for tempo.

You probably want to send MIDI Clock to the Max.

I would run the MPC as the master for tempo, so would leave Receive to Off, and send MIDI Clock to the TB-3 as well as the Max.

MIDI Machine Control (MMC) sends the transport control button presses, so whatever works, maybe sending MMC, which I assume sends the MMC commands out whatever MIDI Clock Send ports you have selected.

But really, there are different ways to sync everything, so whatever works is good.


With the TB-3 as the audio interface, I didn't think about it only having an output, so that might work if you want to record audio into MPC Software via USB, directly, but if you can't set it up as an aggregate device with the Renaissance interface, you would probably have to switch back to the Renaissance as the audio interface when you wanted other audio inputs.

Might be easiest just to run analogue audio connections from the TB-3 into the Renaissance, and use the Renaissance as your audio interface. That way you can still use the SPDIF from the Mac into the Renaissance for sampling from the computer.

Also, with the TB-3, I think that the USB digital audio output is fixed at 96kHz, so you would have to run MPC Software at 96kHz, if using the TB-3 as you audio interface.
Last edited by SimonInAustralia on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Airyck Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:18 pm
I'll +1 (just for the sake of not dealing with a bunch of different digital signal sampling frequency mess which will cost way more to correct) .... that the best idea would be to leave your setup how you had it and run the TB-3 into the 1/4" analog inputs on the Ren.
By aldred411 Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:39 pm
Yes I agree If I'm using the right cable the tb sounds ok the rec gain is just past a quarter turn and the level meter hits the yellow ,so it prob easier that way,

With the good leads if I turn the the tb down and increase the gain to say halfway I noise starts to come back and increases as I turn the gain up obviously you don't need or want it that loud but I'm thinking there's to much gain to start
You see u get a little movement in the meters before anything is connected I was told by akai that it is normal ,this movement increases when u raise the gain when the tb is connect,with no volume ,so u can record this noise ,but it's not coming from the tb
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By Airyck Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:42 pm
Yep, everything is going to have some noise in the signal. You just have to get your gain staging correct to avoid amplifying the inherent noise floor in the signal. Sounds like you should crank the TB-3 and keep the Ren gain low.

Basically turn up the source more if you can so you have a larger signal to work with and you won't need to amplify a quiet signal so much (which also amplifies the noise floor).
You wont be able to get rid of it in almost any amplifier or audio interface (no matter how high the quality there will be noise) but if you work to minimize the side effects of it through proper gain staging, you should be able to make almost any amplifier/audio interface sound decent.

Not much out there is horrible in recording quality if you work with it. All these super expensive audio interfaces usually just have better jitter control (digital audio) and lower noise floors (and good sounding pre-amplifiers). People get too hung up on this 1% improvement in audio quality when it all can be made better or destroyed by mix engineering and mastering.

Anyway get yourself some 1/4" cables and call it a day, simpler is better in most cases