NI Maschine 2.0

cyrus wrote:

damien907 wrote:1. global choke groups
2. mute/ panic button
3. timestretching
4. midi import/export

yup, just ran into needing #1 today. I had some samples in seperate groups i wanted to mute eachother....forced to rearrange some things. global choke would have been nice, especially since you arel imited by 16 pads per goup.

although i think youd have to be able to specify global or not, or it be sperate setting, not the same setting otherwise i could see it going the other way too!

the lack of global choke groups is the main reason i returned my maschine to guitar center a day after i bought it.
that and the lack of a panic button.

it really cripples creativity imo.

why do you think it should be a separate setting as apposed to "thats just how the groups work now"? i could never see myself wanting the groups to act the way they do now. but i guess at the end of the day more options are always better.

damien907 wrote:

cyrus wrote:

damien907 wrote:1. global choke groups
2. mute/ panic button
3. timestretching
4. midi import/export

yup, just ran into needing #1 today. I had some samples in seperate groups i wanted to mute eachother....forced to rearrange some things. global choke would have been nice, especially since you arel imited by 16 pads per goup.

although i think youd have to be able to specify global or not, or it be sperate setting, not the same setting otherwise i could see it going the other way too!

the lack of global choke groups is the main reason i returned my maschine to guitar center a day after i bought it.
that and the lack of a panic button.

it really cripples creativity imo.

why do you think it should be a separate setting as apposed to "thats just how the groups work now"? i could never see myself wanting the groups to act the way they do now. but i guess at the end of the day more options are always better.

Well, i guess it depends on how you look at groups. I suppose if you look at all groups as one big program and changing groups is like changing banks, then global choke would be appropriate but then in that case, all group properties should be global too.

but im looking at it like each group is like a program, so in that case, chokes specific to the group make sense.............the major problem however, is that in each group you are limited to 16 pads. I think thats the major issue/limitation. I can fill up 16 pads by chopping 1 damn drum break or phrase. So with the limited number of pads per group, you are forced to create a new group if you have more than 16 chops or samples that need to work together (lame). if thats the case, then all my group settings now have to be duplicated, this is the reason i would like global choke group so that i dont have to duplicate things or create dummy mute pads.

So i guess the real issue is the limitation of number of sounds per group forcing you to use other groups for the same sample - this is especially cumbersome when you need to start reserving and using up pads with blank samples to mute other pads because the sound that is suppose to mute another happends to reside in another group.

duplicating things is actually very ineffecient.

there are workarounds, such as putting all your samples into one pad as keygroups, mapping them one by one on each key, but this is tedious and not as simple as duplicate pad or dragging to pad - a workflow killer.

so actually, i dont really want global choke groups, I want more sounds per group!!!

yeah, i think were thinking about the same thing just wording it different.

by global choke group i mean the group button A through H is actually like a bank button on my mpc.

i need group A (bank A) to be able to mute group b,c,d, or whatever.

so when you go into group 1 and select it, group 1 of pad group A needs to be global, not independent of group 1 in pad group B.

so group A can mute group B. basically i want their pad groups (A through H) to function as mpc Banks.

and the mute groups to be global across all banks instead of independent of each bank limiting it to 16 sounds per choke group.

damien907 wrote:yeah, i think were thinking about the same thing just wording it different.

by global choke group i mean the group button A through H is actually like a bank button on my mpc.

i need group A (bank A) to be able to mute group b,c,d, or whatever.

so when you go into group 1 and select it, group 1 of pad group A needs to be global, not independent of group 1 in pad group B.

so group A can mute group B. basically i want their pad groups (A through H) to function as mpc Banks.

and the mute groups to be global across all banks instead of independent of each bank limiting it to 16 sounds per choke group.

exactly.

Im still confused as to why NI didnt realize this limitation.. I mean, if you've ever chopped a drum break before, you'd realize this. obvioiusly not everyone chops up loops to a super fine degree, and not everyone is using samples the same way (with choke groups, number of chops, etc.), but 16 pads per group i think is limiting from everyone's perspective. even if you dont really need choke groups, if you are trying to make complex arrangements, or live performance triggering and muting, etc. 16 is a wierd limit.

cyrus wrote:
there are workarounds, such as putting all your samples into one pad as keygroups, mapping them one by one on each key, but this is tedious and not as simple as duplicate pad or dragging to pad - a workflow killer.

so actually, i dont really want global choke groups, I want more sounds per group!!!

cyrus wrote:

damien907 wrote:yeah, i think were thinking about the same thing just wording it different.

by global choke group i mean the group button A through H is actually like a bank button on my mpc.

i need group A (bank A) to be able to mute group b,c,d, or whatever.

so when you go into group 1 and select it, group 1 of pad group A needs to be global, not independent of group 1 in pad group B.

so group A can mute group B. basically i want their pad groups (A through H) to function as mpc Banks.

and the mute groups to be global across all banks instead of independent of each bank limiting it to 16 sounds per choke group.

exactly.

Im still confused as to why NI didnt realize this limitation.. I mean, if you've ever chopped a drum break before, you'd realize this. obvioiusly not everyone chops up loops to a super fine degree, and not everyone is using samples the same way (with choke groups, number of chops, etc.), but 16 pads per group i think is limiting from everyone's perspective. even if you dont really need choke groups, if you are trying to make complex arrangements, or live performance triggering and muting, etc. 16 is a wierd limit.

On Maschine, it's 16 pads per group, BUT, if you chop all 16 samples non-destructively, you can have thousands of pads per group. So let's say for example, I had 16 different drum breaks and they were all 8 bars each and I loaded each one to a pad in group A. Now, I chop each one, non-destructively, into quarter note chops, so each break is now made up of 64 slices. That's 1024 different samples you have in group A alone. You don't have to do any crazy mapping, just chop just like an MPC, and press apply. Done and on to the next break to chop.

Sure you technically only have 1 drum break assign to each pad, but if you select a pad and set it to keyboard mode, you access your 64 slices for that one break, which you can sequence, exit keyboard mode for that pad, select another pad/break, enter keyboard mode for that one, and add on, and so on. And you can set the pads to mute each other through chokes. Plus the non-destructive slices already mute each other by setting pad polyphony to 1. So that's 1024 slices in the same group that can mute each other. I think you can have up 108 slices to a single pad/sample, which if you used all 108 on each pad in a group, gives you 1728 slices in a single group.

In a word : 'Everything'.


Can't wait too see how these new Nukai's stack up against this now very mature Maschine ?

DJ Hellfire wrote:

cyrus wrote:
there are workarounds, such as putting all your samples into one pad as keygroups, mapping them one by one on each key, but this is tedious and not as simple as duplicate pad or dragging to pad - a workflow killer.

so actually, i dont really want global choke groups, I want more sounds per group!!!

cyrus wrote:

damien907 wrote:yeah, i think were thinking about the same thing just wording it different.

by global choke group i mean the group button A through H is actually like a bank button on my mpc.

i need group A (bank A) to be able to mute group b,c,d, or whatever.

so when you go into group 1 and select it, group 1 of pad group A needs to be global, not independent of group 1 in pad group B.

so group A can mute group B. basically i want their pad groups (A through H) to function as mpc Banks.

and the mute groups to be global across all banks instead of independent of each bank limiting it to 16 sounds per choke group.

exactly.

Im still confused as to why NI didnt realize this limitation.. I mean, if you've ever chopped a drum break before, you'd realize this. obvioiusly not everyone chops up loops to a super fine degree, and not everyone is using samples the same way (with choke groups, number of chops, etc.), but 16 pads per group i think is limiting from everyone's perspective. even if you dont really need choke groups, if you are trying to make complex arrangements, or live performance triggering and muting, etc. 16 is a wierd limit.

On Maschine, it's 16 pads per group, BUT, if you chop all 16 samples non-destructively, you can have thousands of pads per group. So let's say for example, I had 16 different drum breaks and they were all 8 bars each and I loaded each one to a pad in group A. Now, I chop each one, non-destructively, into quarter note chops, so each break is now made up of 64 slices. That's 1024 different samples you have in group A alone. You don't have to do any crazy mapping, just chop just like an MPC, and press apply. Done and on to the next break to chop.

Sure you technically only have 1 drum break assign to each pad, but if you select a pad and set it to keyboard mode, you access your 64 slices for that one break, which you can sequence, exit keyboard mode for that pad, select another pad/break, enter keyboard mode for that one, and add on, and so on. And you can set the pads to mute each other through chokes. Plus the non-destructive slices already mute each other by setting pad polyphony to 1. So that's 1024 slices in the same group that can mute each other. I think you can have up 108 slices to a single pad/sample, which if you used all 108 on each pad in a group, gives you 1728 slices in a single group.

hell yeah, thanks for schooling me on that.

question: maybe i should just try it, but when you slice, can the slices be overlapped? or does one have to start where the previous ends?

cyrus wrote:hell yeah, thanks for schooling me on that.

question: maybe i should just try it, but when you slice, can the slices be overlapped? or does one have to start where the previous ends?

If they can be overlapped, I haven't figured that out. But I doubt they can be.

The only down side to NI's group setup is if you have a bunch of one shot drums you wanna load, then you are limited to just 16 per group (unless you do the manual mapping like you mentioned), which does suck in that sense. I guess they implemented this system banking on the chance that the majority of the people will be chopping large samples non-destructively, which not everyone does. But on the other hand, I doubt there is a high percentage of people that use 128 unique samples in a single beat. But I guess it's nice to just have a bunch of sounds loaded to choose from. I used to do this on the MPC, but it made the load time of a beat sooooo loooooong!

cyrus wrote:hell yeah, thanks for schooling me on that.

question: maybe i should just try it, but when you slice, can the slices be overlapped?

Yup. After you set up your auto slice in the slice screen, press "apply to" and press the target group. You then can press sample and the edit button on the left and adjust each slice to tweak it to your liking with overlap. Because Maschine does nondestructive chopping, each pad references the same sample and can expand its start end regions the whole length of the sample

emptysea wrote:

cyrus wrote:hell yeah, thanks for schooling me on that.

question: maybe i should just try it, but when you slice, can the slices be overlapped?

Yup. After you set up your auto slice in the slice screen, press "apply to" and press the target group. You then can press sample and the edit button on the left and adjust each slice to tweak it to your liking with overlap. Because Maschine does nondestructive chopping, each pad references the same sample and can expand its start end regions the whole length of the sample

I can confirm what emptysea is saying. Its been a secret...and even Maschine users don't really know it exists. As many of them are using the duplicate function to chop. Basically when you chop up a sample, you use the Apply To function to drag-n-drop to a group where you can then edit the samples further non-destrutively exactly the JJ OS. But you are still stuck with the limitations of Maschine when it comes to the numbers of samples in a group and the fixed nature of its initial chopping.

DJ Hellfire wrote:
On Maschine, it's 16 pads per group, BUT, if you chop all 16 samples non-destructively, you can have thousands of pads per group. So let's say for example, I had 16 different drum breaks and they were all 8 bars each and I loaded each one to a pad in group A. Now, I chop each one, non-destructively, into quarter note chops, so each break is now made up of 64 slices. That's 1024 different samples you have in group A alone. You don't have to do any crazy mapping, just chop just like an MPC, and press apply. Done and on to the next break to chop.



Sure you technically only have 1 drum break assign to each pad, but if you select a pad and set it to keyboard mode, you access your 64 slices for that one break, which you can sequence, exit keyboard mode for that pad, select another pad/break, enter keyboard mode for that one, and add on, and so on.

so after you wold chop your 1024 chops from each break in NDC mode, you would connect your keyboard (or does keyboard mode work without a keyboard?) and it will automap them out across the octaves? what happens when you run out of octaves on your keyboard (granted you probably would never use a whole 88 keys for each break or pad.

damien907 wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:
On Maschine, it's 16 pads per group, BUT, if you chop all 16 samples non-destructively, you can have thousands of pads per group. So let's say for example, I had 16 different drum breaks and they were all 8 bars each and I loaded each one to a pad in group A. Now, I chop each one, non-destructively, into quarter note chops, so each break is now made up of 64 slices. That's 1024 different samples you have in group A alone. You don't have to do any crazy mapping, just chop just like an MPC, and press apply. Done and on to the next break to chop.



Sure you technically only have 1 drum break assign to each pad, but if you select a pad and set it to keyboard mode, you access your 64 slices for that one break, which you can sequence, exit keyboard mode for that pad, select another pad/break, enter keyboard mode for that one, and add on, and so on.

so after you wold chop your 1024 chops from each break in NDC mode, you would connect your keyboard (or does keyboard mode work without a keyboard?) and it will automap them out across the octaves? what happens when you run out of octaves on your keyboard (granted you probably would never use a whole 88 keys for each break or pad.

Yup, the Maschine controller can scroll the octaves to access the different chops. No keyboard needed. Only downside is you can't quickly jump between two non consecutive octaves the same way an MPC can randomly jump between any pad bank. This would really only be a concern in a live situation, unless of course you have a keyboard with you. Not a big deal when sequencing at home. If you do have a keyboard connected, the chops will span the entire keyboard. If you run out of keys on the keyboard, I suppose you could transpose the keyboard.

damien907 wrote:does keyboard mode work without a keyboard?

The keyboard mode can be used with just the Maschine controller. The pads turn into chromatic notes and you can scroll through the octaves using the top right buttons. You can also change the base note on the left screen.

DJ Hellfire wrote:
Yup, the Maschine controller can scroll the octaves to access the different chops. No keyboard needed. Only downside is you can't quickly jump between two non consecutive octaves the same way an MPC can randomly jump between any pad bank. This would really only be a concern in a live situation, unless of course you have a keyboard with you. Not a big deal when sequencing at home. If you do have a keyboard connected, the chops will span the entire keyboard. If you run out of keys on the keyboard, I suppose you could transpose the keyboard.

ah ok, so to clarify then, for example if i was playing live on my mpc from bank A and jumped to bank C, then back again to A, just to kinda get a rough idea of how my beat would be arranged this couldent be done on maschine like i thought before?

but on maschine something like this would only be possible if i had a keyboard controller (say a 25 key) MIDI'd to it and then transposed the octaves up and down. correct? this would give me a psudeo type bank button in the octaves of the keyboard right?

for me i wouldent be using it for a live situation at a show, but i do like to play it like an instrument when im jamming out at home or getting a rough idea for my beat.
so thats why i like the MPC's ability to switch between different non consecutive pad banks at will and have them mute each other out.

damien907 wrote:

DJ Hellfire wrote:
Yup, the Maschine controller can scroll the octaves to access the different chops. No keyboard needed. Only downside is you can't quickly jump between two non consecutive octaves the same way an MPC can randomly jump between any pad bank. This would really only be a concern in a live situation, unless of course you have a keyboard with you. Not a big deal when sequencing at home. If you do have a keyboard connected, the chops will span the entire keyboard. If you run out of keys on the keyboard, I suppose you could transpose the keyboard.

ah ok, so to clarify then, for example if i was playing live on my mpc from bank A and jumped to bank C, then back again to A, just to kinda get a rough idea of how my beat would be arranged this couldent be done on maschine like i thought before?

but on maschine something like this would only be possible if i had a keyboard controller (say a 25 key) MIDI'd to it and then transposed the octaves up and down. correct? this would give me a psudeo type bank button in the octaves of the keyboard right?

for me i wouldent be using it for a live situation at a show, but i do like to play it like an instrument when im jamming out at home or getting a rough idea for my beat.
so thats why i like the MPC's ability to switch between different non consecutive pad banks at will and have them mute each other out.

Correct. On Maschine you can only scroll the octaves in order. It'd be like an MPC only being able to go A, B, C, D, C, B, A. But like I said, if you have a nice size keyboard, you can jump all over the place. Basically, the larger your keyboard, the more slices you can access without transposing. And they all can mute each other out.