looking for the perfect beat… which sampler/mpc combo ?

So I'm a fairly experienced DAW user. Maybe not the greatest producer, but I try! I've been really trying to dig deeper into hip-hop but I've hit a wall with the MPC 1000. It seems my sound is just too clinical and closed from this machine, and when I try and add colour, even with Waves plugins, my stuff still sucks!

I know full well that inspiration, creativity and talent are irreplaceable elements of composition and production, but I'm really looking to get a more authentic hip-hop sound out of hardware.

For my next project i want to mix live instruments (sax and guitar) recorded in mountains (with a laptop and condensor mic) with old-school hiphop drums, ambient recordings, scratches and cuts from Japanese records.

Here are my options at the moment (in Japanese yen i have 90,000)

1. MPC 2000xl ( zip drive, 32 meg, 50,000 yen)
2. MPC 60 (no frills, os2.12, 70,000 yen)
3. Akai S3000XL (32 meg, 17,000 yen)
4. Akai S2800 (7000 yen)
5. Akai S2000 (6000 yen)
6. Akai 2000xl, MCD (multi-card drive) - 80,000
7. ASR-X (50,000)
Any recommendations? I will probably sell the 1000 eventually, unless it's portability and connectivity makes it worthwhile!)

Cheers guys, sorry to bother you!

mpc 2500 and akai S3000xl or ASR-10 rack

Don't buy anything. Invest more time with the mpc1000.

What are your sources of sound (beside the planned mountain recordings)?
A huge part of the sound in hip hop is where the samples come from. Drums and samples are usually recorded from record players into the samplers which is a big reason why it often doesn't sound very "clean" or "clinical".
Of course this can also be achieved with plug-ins on a computer, but for an instant authentic hip hop sound, try sampling records.

There is differences in workflow, features and sound with all the machines you listed, sure, but are they really that big? The feautures is probably the biggest difference, let's say the 1000 compared to the 60 with os2.12 is quite a difference in the features and possibilities of what the machines offer.

Regarding sound... I would choose the 60 out of them all. It's 12bit, and it can sound really good right "out of the box" (but can also sound very clean and clinical depending on what and how you record into it).

I make beats since 2008 and have owned the mpc500, 2000xl, 2500, 60, s950, asr-10 and sp1200. The only real obvious difference in sound out of these machines is the sp1200. There are sound differences between the other machines, but they are not "game changers" (except for maybe the 60 and asr, they do sound very nice).

What i'm trying to say is...
I've made good and bad beats on all of these machines. I got good and bad sounds out of all of these machines. If you are not happy with your sound, first look at what you are using as sound sources and how you record them into the mpc/sampler, then look at how you process them (eq, effects, mixing) and finally how you record them back to a pc, tape, whatever. This will improve/change your sound much more than a new mpc.

If you really want to buy a new machine and are looking for the biggest sound difference, probably the mpc60 (os2.12 can be a pain in the ass) and asr are your best bet.

Whatever you do, keep the 1000, unless you exchange it for another "new" mpc like the 500, 2500, 4000 or 5000... Simply for their feautures and data/saving/storage/transfer convenience.

Peace

...you got a real mpc....

so no real need to get another one....even if the old ones might sound a bit different, that won't give you what you're missing here....

take your favourite hip hop beat and chop that.....analyze what makes the difference for you in comparison to your own stuff...

ever touched the swing?
ever skipped the quantize function for some elements?
ever tried the repeat function while changing the quantize grid?
ever used real vinyl samples?

each trade mark style has it's own little secrets to keep it goin'....
what is it, you're really dreamin of...?

I use the 1000 with an S950 and I get great results out of it regarding the authentic boom bap sound. No need to change MPC, just get an S950/S900 to go with your 1000. Alot cheaper option if you can get hold of one!

i would have to agree with everyone on here, dont sell the 1k, the sterile sound is just cuase your putting sterile in.

dont think that its gonna change the sound you put in, if its not dirty enough on the way in, dirty it up then sample it. i garantee you will have a dirty sound if you sample a dirty sound!

also if your familiar with the 1k workflow, i guarantee you will miss the features if you downgrade to an older mpc with less features.
at this point in time i just couldnt rock any other mpc, unless it was a major upgrade to my 1k, and by that i mean the 4k.
but even then, if i got the xlcd screen, i would have everything i needed without switching mpc's. although, i already have everything i need with the jjos 2xl on my small screen mpc 1k.

pretty much every beat i make for the last year or two has been inside my 1k and there is no lack of grit here.

if you really really want to spend some money, get something to compliment your mpc, like a s950 like the guy above me said. or get a sp 303 or 404sx or something similar. those roland machines have all kinds of effects to add grit and stuff to your sound.

people seem to like the sound quality of the 303 a lot too.

you could sample stuff into these, to get some lo fi sounds going, then you could sample it into your mpc afterwards!

Alot of the time what your hearing from your speakers is not an accurate representation of what is actually there.

are your speakers in good positioning? is the room somewhat acoustically treated?

are your gains and level set properly?

alot of people want to add color to samples to make it sound better but dont try to figure out why they feel it needs more color.

the sampler combo is not the problem here

if your looking on improving quality such as drums a hardware preamp would be nice

Lampdog wrote:

jibber wrote:Don't buy anything. Invest more time with the mpc1000.

Whatever you do, keep the 1000, unless you exchange it for another "new" mpc like the 500, 2500, 4000 or 5000... Simply for their feautures and data/saving/storage/transfer convenience.

Peace

These.

You said you mostly a DAW user so how the hell do you hit a brickwall with a sampler, because of the sound? You definitely need to spend more time with the 1000 and your DAW abilities and it should be mandatory.

jibber wrote:Don't buy anything. Invest more time with the mpc1000.
...

I agree with jibber.

sampling from from vynal and drum layering... The art of drum layering greatly improves the sound and makes it crunch... i purposely set the master compressor on so it's working fast and a little harsh. Then i layer and layer so that it starts to soak and thrash a bit. then resampled that to a pad.. I never have the same drum sound for any beat i make.. or never use one snare or hihat or kik drum at a time... always layered... When layering play around with the pitch for each layer until you here them 'sing' together ...

yo, it sounds like you need a Beat Thang

Cheers everyone! Much food for thought. I made the jump last week and bought the 60.
Ive kept the 1000, as its so portable and generally a joy to work on. Resampling a lot and loving the
Results so far. JJOS is so deep, I know I'll still get a lot out of that machine too.

Thanks for all the information. I think with these two I can blend hi-def and 12 bit
To hopefully get some professional yet dirty sounds!

Thanks. Abso with you on monitors and quality samples. Now I got no excuses! Better make this album.

dazastah wrote:sampling from from vynal and drum layering... The art of drum layering greatly improves the sound and makes it crunch... i purposely set the master compressor on so it's working fast and a little harsh. Then i layer and layer so that it starts to soak and thrash a bit. then resampled that to a pad.. I never have the same drum sound for any beat i make.. or never use one snare or hihat or kik drum at a time... always layered... When layering play around with the pitch for each layer until you here them 'sing' together ...

Thanks, some nice tips. I'm also trying layering vinyl hiss underneath snares, etc,
Which can help give a little fuzz, and control how much! I'm a big vinyl fan, just gotta find
Some weird Japanese solo koto records!!!