Can anyone with an S950 replicate this problem?

Hi folks,

I'm trying to create some sub basses with the S950, but I’m having an issue with the envelope section and not sure if this is normal behaviour. I’m basically getting this digital metallic distortion in the lower notes, and the issue occurs when using the envelope shaper (NOT the VCF), and it happens when attack time is longer, and decay/release time is shorter. I actually get similar behaviour with the Juno-106 envelopes for bass.

Here's an audio clip, I have EQ’d so you can hear the noise more clearly, its not this loud IRL:
http://sndup.net/hffm
ENV settings here are Attack:58, Decay:42, Sustain:00, Release:67

Just wondering if anyone gets a similar thing with their S950, or if this is an issue I might need to fix?

Cheers!

Lampdog wrote:Sample rate mismatch somewhere?

Hi, I don’t think it’s related to sample rate, but could you explain in case any MPCs do this? The sample was recorded at 19200Hz (the max for this unit) and there isn’t an option change that in the Program settings, which is where the problem occurs. The thing that leads me to believe it’s something else is that I get the same behaviour in the Juno-106, which also has digital envelopes. I just can’t seem to find any other mention of this anywhere online
Cheers!

Also just to clarify, this only happens for sub bass. Other mid-high frequency sounds don’t seem to be affected.

Lampdog wrote:I should have said “bit depth”.
Degradation in detail maybe?

Do you mean mismatched bit depth between the sampler and interface+DAW? Whatever this is I’m positive it’s an issue within the unit itself, as it’s fine until you engage the envelope.

Lampdog wrote:Can’t be the unit itself if your getting the same thing in Juno, a whole ‘nother machine.

I mean the Juno exhibits a similar behaviour in the envelope, but it’s 100% within the unit. It can’t be anything else, as it occurs even with only headphones plugged in and again, it’s only when the envelope setting is engaged. I think both the S950 and Juno I’ve got have the same quirk on their own terms. I’m just trying to work out what’s causing it, and whether it’s expected behaviour or something wrong.

Thanks though

How much are you trying to stretch the sample? Where are you sampling from?

Personally I kind of doubt it is the envelope, but I suppose anything is possible. Do you have an example .wav file to play in and... besides the env... rough parameters? I could take some time to try and recreate... but anything I've pitched down to an extreme amount on the S950 hasn't sounded as you've described... so *shrug*... I don't know... but willing to try and take some time to help.

NearTao wrote:How much are you trying to stretch the sample? Where are you sampling from?

Personally I kind of doubt it is the envelope, but I suppose anything is possible. Do you have an example .wav file to play in and... besides the env... rough parameters? I could take some time to try and recreate... but anything I've pitched down to an extreme amount on the S950 hasn't sounded as you've described... so *shrug*... I don't know... but willing to try and take some time to help.

Hey thanks man, I appreciate it. So what I’m getting is basically a sort of resonance-y distortion in the on the attack and decay bass sounds. I read on another forum about ‘zipping’ noise with the S1000 envelopes, so I thought it might be that?
I’m not doing any stretching currently.
I was recording from hardware keyboards before, but recording from my interface gives me the same thing.

Here’s just a sampled TR808 kick if you want to try: https://sndup.net/ckvy/
Here’s the main parameters I used:
Recorded 19200Hz
Set pitch of sound to D2 (50)
Record HOT
(In EDIT SAMPLE) Sample Loudness:50
(In EDIT PROGRAM) ENV settings are
A:38 D:60 S:00 R:00 (You can also try increasing release)
Then turn on One-shot mode
Then try playing the note D1 (1 octave below the recorded pitch). For me, it becomes more noticeable the lower I play.
Here’s what I got: http://sndup.net/bckm/

Let me know if you have any questions!
Cheers!

Just listened to what you've posted, and can already tell you're recording in way too hot. What you're effectively doing is turning the kick drum into a square wave, which is why it is sounding metallic. It might sound fine playing it this way *through* the S950 with the gear on the other end without sampling it... but the S950 is digitally distorting because you've got too much heat. Turn the REC knob down, and get it to *kiss* the peak, not blast past it.

With your settings and the sample not peaking HOT... it sounds exactly as I'd expect. And just for kicks, I pressed the record knob to max and it sounds just like your recording. has nothing to do with pitching it down, envelopes, or anything else... just too hot and creating a ton of digital distortion.

NearTao wrote:Just listened to what you've posted, and can already tell you're recording in way too hot. What you're effectively doing is turning the kick drum into a square wave, which is why it is sounding metallic. It might sound fine playing it this way *through* the S950 with the gear on the other end without sampling it... but the S950 is digitally distorting because you've got too much heat. Turn the REC knob down, and get it to *kiss* the peak, not blast past it.

With your settings and the sample not peaking HOT... it sounds exactly as I'd expect. And just for kicks, I pressed the record knob to max and it sounds just like your recording. has nothing to do with pitching it down, envelopes, or anything else... just too hot and creating a ton of digital distortion.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don’t think it’s distortion because of the input level. I really feel like this is something else.
I tested recording at much lower levels, like less half way up the bar and it gives me the same sound, just quieter.

Did you use the envelope when you did it? I really want to make this clear; it sounds perfectly fine until I engage the AMP ENV. Once I try to slow the attack, it gives me that ‘thrrrrrp’ sound (distortion maybe isn’t the right word, it sounds kinda like buzzing phone interference).

I’m just dying to know if it’s just my device that does this, or if it’s expected behaviour.
The fact that I have another device that does the same thing leads me to believe this might just be a limitation of these early digital envelopes when it comes to really low frequencies.
I can always put a steep LP filter on it and I still get those sexy dynamics. It would just be cool to know if I can avoid doing that.

I just ran it again... and without making it hot, with your amp envelope settings... I mostly just hear the time stretched noise floor, and pretty much none of the sample.

With that envelope you don't hear much of the kick... but with or without the envelope I'm hearing what I suspect you're describing as metallic, but I've had to pitch the sample down 2 octaves to get it to do what I believe you're describing... and have as an audio example.

To me, this is pretty expected behavior though, because you are pitch shifting the sample so low that you're now picking up artifacts from the engine. I may be wrong, but this seems to me like something I'd expect to happen when you get this extreme with a sample, especially with older technology.