MPC X, MPC Live, MPC One & MPC Key 61 Forum: Support and discussion for the MPC X, MPC Live, MPC Live II, MPC One & MPC Key 61; Akai's current generation of standalone MPCs.
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By Icepulse Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:18 pm
No promises, but a friend of mine is down with one of the DITC crew, who beta tests for Akai.

He says the new firmware for Live / X will be dropping in a matter of days.

I hope audio streaming from disc will be included.

Cross your fingers!
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By zangetsu01 Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:51 pm
If audio streaming of disk would be included Andy Mac and the other guys would have show cased it at NAMM 2018..
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By ghost.transmitter Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:58 pm
At least the clocking from external gear issue should be fixed in 2.1, acording to Dan on another forum:

Hi Folks,

Dan from Akai here. So this issue he's talking about has been discovered by a user on gearslutz, and we've been able to reproduce the issue on some units. Indeed it doesn't appear to be all units, which explains why some users see it, but others don't.

there are actually 3 separate issues, which was why it was so hard to chase down. There was a drift over time (3-4 minutes) that reset itself when you hit play, there was a jitter between notes, which I suspect the thread starter is talking about, and an offset that wouldnt remain consistent on start. again, not everyone had these issues, only a select few. The good news is all of these issues are fixable, and have been addressed in the next release, v2.1. it's scheduled to be released soon, probably within the next 7 days.

hope that clears things up!
_________________
Product Manager, Akai Professional

Posted today, so the update might be available on the 15th.
User avatar
By Icepulse Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:07 pm
ghost.transmitter wrote:At least the clocking from external gear issue should be fixed in 2.1, acording to Dan on another forum:

Hi Folks,

Dan from Akai here. So this issue he's talking about has been discovered by a user on gearslutz, and we've been able to reproduce the issue on some units. Indeed it doesn't appear to be all units, which explains why some users see it, but others don't.

there are actually 3 separate issues, which was why it was so hard to chase down. There was a drift over time (3-4 minutes) that reset itself when you hit play, there was a jitter between notes, which I suspect the thread starter is talking about, and an offset that wouldnt remain consistent on start. again, not everyone had these issues, only a select few. The good news is all of these issues are fixable, and have been addressed in the next release, v2.1. it's scheduled to be released soon, probably within the next 7 days.

hope that clears things up!
_________________
Product Manager, Akai Professional

Posted today, so the update might be available on the 15th.


2.1 (vs. 2.0.8) implies more features, vs. simple bug fixes. Fingers crossed.
User avatar
By Danoc Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:21 pm
At NAAM guy said it would drop in a week.

Icepulse wrote:No promises, but a friend of mine is down with one of the DITC crew, who beta tests for Akai.

He says the new firmware for Live / X will be dropping in a matter of days.

I hope audio streaming from disc will be included.

Cross your fingers!
By tbeltrans Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:05 pm
I would much prefer that Akai take the time to do rigorous testing to insure that absolute stability of the next release, rather than yielding pressure from impatient customers (and all of us are that at one time or another). In firmware development, there is always a lot of pressure to get the product out the door as quickly as possible.

When a project is started, a schedule is set, as well as the estimated development costs. Somewhere around halfway through the schedule, we start to see the various problems that need to be solved, that were not accounted for in the initial planning. This ALWAYS happens because you can't predict every possible problem that could be encountered. The more complex a product is, the greater the chances and impact of this happening. The MPC X/Live is just such a complex product.

However, the schedule is usually not adjusted to account for these problems. What happens instead is that the release date is publicized, and everybody then needs to work lots of evenings and weekends to try to meet that date. If any engineers from other projects can be freed up, they will be thrown into this project. Then, you have the "Mythical Man Month" situation (a book that used to be required reading in an engineering curriculum) in which the number of communication paths among development team members and management increases dramatically, making the project that much more complex and prone to error.

The human body is what it is, and after some number of hours of intense focus on a problem, or even just writing tons of code, we begin to make mistakes that then have to be corrected the next day, if they are discovered at all. This makes for decreased overall efficiency. After a certain point, the efforts to meet the schedule become self-defeating.

A very accurate rule of thumb is that the earlier a problem is discovered in the product's life cycle, the easier and less expensive it is to fix. It is much easier to fix a problem that shows up in final test than it is once the product is in the field. It is much easier to fix a problem BEFORE it goes into test, than it is in test when all the code has been piled on and there are far more paths to go wrong.

This stuff happens on nearly every project of any size and complexity level, but we continue to do things the same way all the time, rather than allowing for more time to get the project done in the initial estimates.

Finally, the schedule "slips" and that must be announced. Since expectations on the part of the sales force and the expecting consumers of the product had already been set, this causes a high level of frustration and potentially, lost sales as folks look elsewhere for a similar product, if there is one available.

Testing comes at the end of the development cycle, and it is the first part of the schedule to get squeezed as development takes longer than expected. Therefore, the product often is not tested thoroughly as a result of reduced test time, and then you see all the complaints about bugs in the forums. :)

In my opinion, as a result of having lived through many projects which all followed this path, it seems that it would be much better for all concerned, to provide a more accurate schedule in the beginning, padding it for the unexpected, that then be flexible enough to insure proper testing at the end. Instead, what often happens is that the engineers put together their time and cost estimate, and then management decides that the schedule is too long/expensive and must be shortened and some corners cut.

There is always the big fear that somebody else is creating a similar product and will get to market first. The reality that nobody seems to consider is that a product of a given size and complexity will take a certain amount of time and no company can magically make that shorter without encountering the problems I describe here. The only way to get to market first with a solid product is to have started before the competition. So everybody plays this game and the consumers of the product continue to complain.

One thing I have seen happen is that a product with really deep features, will have its test time spent on the features that the company thinks most people will use, leaving the more obscure features to be tested and fixed in subsequent releases, which rarely happens since every release will add still more features that need testing.

So what we end up with is that we buy the initial release of a product, and hope that the company continues to develop it for a few years to at least get to the point where a reasonable WORKING feature set is achieved before the company goes on to the next shiny new thing. Sometimes, we are lucky and this does in fact, happen. Other times, the company decides to abandon the product for something they feel has more potential for revenue. Let's hope Akai decides the MPC X/Live generate enough revenue to have a useful life cycle worth developing to completion (whatever that may be).

I have also seen products "run off the rails" because the company really tries hard to take all the user complaints and suggestions, and address them all. This can get to be too much because there is one development team of fixed size, but any number of customers and potential customers, all posting and complaining. The net result can be that the product never becomes stable because every release adds lots of new, and largely untested, goodies in a vain attempt to appease the customer base.

As a consumer, I have had only one product that has never had, nor needed, a firmware upgrade after its release. That product is my Roland V-Grand digital piano. I have never encountered ANY problem with it. It just works. Of course, it is a very expensive product, Roland's flagship digital piano, which they put 10 years of development into before releasing it. Most of the typical products we have would not take 10 years, but the V-Grand was the first all modelled digital piano that truly attempts to recreate an immersive experience of playing a real grand piano, with all new technology developed to make that happen.

Tony
User avatar
By Danoc Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:12 pm
:worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

I wonder how many knew about the Roland Digital Piano that you described that took ten years? I wonder if they kept it under wraps, so no one would of known it was coming in the first place to even ask about it.

tbeltrans wrote:I would much prefer that Akai take the time to do rigorous testing to insure that absolute stability of the next release, rather than yielding pressure from impatient customers (and all of us are that at one time or another). In firmware development, there is always a lot of pressure to get the product out the door as quickly as possible.

When a project is started, a schedule is set, as well as the estimated development costs. Somewhere around halfway through the schedule, we start to see the various problems that need to be solved, that were not accounted for in the initial planning. This ALWAYS happens because you can't predict every possible problem that could be encountered. The more complex a product is, the greater the chances and impact of this happening. The MPC X/Live is just such a complex product.

However, the schedule is usually not adjusted to account for these problems. What happens instead is that the release date is publicized, and everybody then needs to work lots of evenings and weekends to try to meet that date. If any engineers from other projects can be freed up, they will be thrown into this project. Then, you have the "Mythical Man Month" situation (a book that used to be required reading in an engineering curriculum) in which the number of communication paths among development team members and management increases dramatically, making the project that much more complex and prone to error.

The human body is what it is, and after some number of hours of intense focus on a problem, or even just writing tons of code, we begin to make mistakes that then have to be corrected the next day, if they are discovered at all. This makes for decreased overall efficiency. After a certain point, the efforts to meet the schedule become self-defeating.

A very accurate rule of thumb is that the earlier a problem is discovered in the product's life cycle, the easier and less expensive it is to fix. It is much easier to fix a problem that shows up in final test than it is once the product is in the field. It is much easier to fix a problem BEFORE it goes into test, than it is in test when all the code has been piled on and there are far more paths to go wrong.

This stuff happens on nearly every project of any size and complexity level, but we continue to do things the same way all the time, rather than allowing for more time to get the project done in the initial estimates.

Finally, the schedule "slips" and that must be announced. Since expectations on the part of the sales force and the expecting consumers of the product had already been set, this causes a high level of frustration and potentially, lost sales as folks look elsewhere for a similar product, if there is one available.

Testing comes at the end of the development cycle, and it is the first part of the schedule to get squeezed as development takes longer than expected. Therefore, the product often is not tested thoroughly as a result of reduced test time, and then you see all the complaints about bugs in the forums. :)

In my opinion, as a result of having lived through many projects which all followed this path, it seems that it would be much better for all concerned, to provide a more accurate schedule in the beginning, padding it for the unexpected, that then be flexible enough to insure proper testing at the end. Instead, what often happens is that the engineers put together their time and cost estimate, and then management decides that the schedule is too long/expensive and must be shortened and some corners cut.

There is always the big fear that somebody else is creating a similar product and will get to market first. The reality that nobody seems to consider is that a product of a given size and complexity will take a certain amount of time and no company can magically make that shorter without encountering the problems I describe here. The only way to get to market first with a solid product is to have started before the competition. So everybody plays this game and the consumers of the product continue to complain.

One thing I have seen happen is that a product with really deep features, will have its test time spent on the features that the company thinks most people will use, leaving the more obscure features to be tested and fixed in subsequent releases, which rarely happens since every release will add still more features that need testing.

So what we end up with is that we buy the initial release of a product, and hope that the company continues to develop it for a few years to at least get to the point where a reasonable WORKING feature set is achieved before the company goes on to the next shiny new thing. Sometimes, we are lucky and this does in fact, happen. Other times, the company decides to abandon the product for something they feel has more potential for revenue. Let's hope Akai decides the MPC X/Live generate enough revenue to have a useful life cycle worth developing to completion (whatever that may be).

I have also seen products "run off the rails" because the company really tries hard to take all the user complaints and suggestions, and address them all. This can get to be too much because there is one development team of fixed size, but any number of customers and potential customers, all posting and complaining. The net result can be that the product never becomes stable because every release adds lots of new, and largely untested, goodies in a vain attempt to appease the customer base.

As a consumer, I have had only one product that has never had, nor needed, a firmware upgrade after its release. That product is my Roland V-Grand digital piano. I have never encountered ANY problem with it. It just works. Of course, it is a very expensive product, Roland's flagship digital piano, which they put 10 years of development into before releasing it. Most of the typical products we have would not take 10 years, but the V-Grand was the first all modelled digital piano that truly attempts to recreate an immersive experience of playing a real grand piano, with all new technology developed to make that happen.

Tony
By tbeltrans Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:56 pm
Danoc wrote::worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

I wonder how many knew about the Roland Digital Piano that you described that took ten years? I wonder if they kept it under wraps, so no one would of known it was coming in the first place to even ask about it.



Honestly, I don't know the answer to that . :) I really didn't pay much attention when the V-Piano as released, so if there was hype prior to its release, I wasn't aware of it. The V-Piano hit the market in 2009. The V-Grand added some new models and had a few improvements and was released in 2011. I became interested a few years after these releases, when I retired and decided it was time to teach myself to play piano.

So I missed whatever Roland did to generate market interest in these products. After the fact, I watched several youtube videos of the V-Grand being played in classical music concert halls by big name players, and the V-Piano being played by some big name jazz and pop artists.

To me, the V-Grand is a bit like those concept cars that some car companies make just for auto shows - just because they can. The V-Piano and V-Grand are used by a number of performing artists. I have seen several videos of Lady Gaga and also David Benoit using the V-Grand, for example.

Both of these were/are marketed solely as pianos. They don't make all the different sounds and noises that most digital products do these days. But what these do, they do exceptionally well. Their cost puts them out of reach of many people, and I would guess that during development, Roland probably worked closely with at least some of the artists who now use the product. So the development cycle is certainly different in some important ways than the mass-marketed stuff.

Tony
User avatar
By Ill-Green Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:56 pm
Danoc wrote:At NAAM guy said it would drop in a week.

Icepulse wrote:No promises, but a friend of mine is down with one of the DITC crew, who beta tests for Akai.

He says the new firmware for Live / X will be dropping in a matter of days.

I hope audio streaming from disc will be included.

Cross your fingers!

A week for these guys are 5 business days excluding weekends and holidays. Could be by March. :-D
By psoul Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:09 am
sorry Ghost.trasnmitter, whis forum are u talking about, just curious?

ghost.transmitter wrote:At least the clocking from external gear issue should be fixed in 2.1, acording to Dan on another forum:

Hi Folks,

Dan from Akai here. So this issue he's talking about has been discovered by a user on gearslutz, and we've been able to reproduce the issue on some units. Indeed it doesn't appear to be all units, which explains why some users see it, but others don't.

there are actually 3 separate issues, which was why it was so hard to chase down. There was a drift over time (3-4 minutes) that reset itself when you hit play, there was a jitter between notes, which I suspect the thread starter is talking about, and an offset that wouldnt remain consistent on start. again, not everyone had these issues, only a select few. The good news is all of these issues are fixable, and have been addressed in the next release, v2.1. it's scheduled to be released soon, probably within the next 7 days.

hope that clears things up!
_________________
Product Manager, Akai Professional

Posted today, so the update might be available on the 15th.
User avatar
By Danoc Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:51 am
$6,999.99 Roland V is a very beautiful piano. I always enjoyed Roland modules. Until now having the Roland A-30 midi keyboard is a wonderful experience. So l can image how you're experiencing the V.

Image


tbeltrans wrote:As a consumer, I have had only one product that has never had, nor needed, a firmware upgrade after its release. That product is my Roland V-Grand digital piano. I have never encountered ANY problem with it. It just works. Of course, it is a very expensive product, Roland's flagship digital piano, which they put 10 years of development into before releasing it. Most of the typical products we have would not take 10 years, but the V-Grand was the first all modelled digital piano that truly attempts to recreate an immersive experience of playing a real grand piano, with all new technology developed to make that happen.

Tony