Record Points

I didnt know where to put this topic, but i would really like to learn about this subject. Please forgive me if this is not where it's supposed to be. I heard about a "point system" in the record industry on a dvd with dr. dre, and hes talking briefly on the subject, how artists and managers dont even understand how they make money in the entertainment industry based on this point system. If anyone could direct me or explain to me this system, it would be greatly appreciated.

Management and distribution gets all the money....thats all i know from the local side of things.

Unless your selling a million plus you wont see much money as a producer, production team, engineer, or artist.

Thats how it is, why i said **** the biz!!! Feel.

"Points" is the percentage of the money earned and where it goes to for a major label distributed recording (one point equals one percent, i think):

A major label usually takes all recoupable money (money used on the artist to record, mix, produce, promote, packaging, etc.)

It comes right out of the artist's royalty check, so when its all said and done, after you make a gold record, the label will turn around like an ex wife and f--- you over. Sometimes, young artists who sell mad records will even OWE a record company into their second and third albums, depending on what their contract was to begin with. Usually a record company will only sign you with a bunk contract where they have nothing to lose really and then when an artist proves to be worthy, lawyers step in and renegotiate a new contract.

I hope thats clear enough, if not, Go to your library and borrow "Inside the Music Indutry" by Michael Fink, or theres a really great article by Steve Albini called "The problem with music" (the original print copy had a front cover picture of a gun placed on the unsuspecting head of a new artist with the caption - some of your friends are already this f--ked...)

I invite EVERYONE to read this inciteful article. It has an average breakdown on why new artists should think twice before signing:
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html

Thanks man... I appreciate the knowledge. It helps a lot!!!

points are a slippery way to give artists their royalties.. basically the record company can set up a point system that best suits them.. usually a point is equal to half a percent... some record companies will give you points from a system that works on retail cost of a cd.. some will give you points based on the manufacturers price... either way, the artist gets about 15 percent (if you're lucky) or less of profits.. that percentage goes lower as most record companies will recoup studio costs, marketing costs, crystal, and the platinum teeth you got in your grille (cause your dumbass got a front thinking that it was for free and that you were gonna sell a lot of records)... so unless you go gold... you're fu uu uu kked with a major label... and even if you got something hot out, they won't promote or distribute it and you're dead before you hit the water... fu kk kk major labels... indies for ever.. fo real... even if you sell like 20 thou, that's a succesful record at a indie.. you're making enough to eat without the stress... efff luxury.. efff major labels.. eff the culture of ignorance that let themselves get used by rich white men that's been raping every fertile soil that they've ever touched.. fo real though.. i love white people.. just white people at universal i hate for personal reasons..

Whaa, whaa, whaa. I hate this, I hate that. White people run everything. Major labels rip you off. Indie labels rule. WHAT A BUNCH OF SISSY GARBAGE!!! You wanna know how to avoid having an attitude like that? MAKE GOOD RECORDS (THAT PEOPLE WILL BUY), AND BE SMART ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS. That means hustling for cheap studio time, keep production costs down, make sure the people working for you are on the same page and anything else that you can do to have a low overhead. That's how you see your points come into play. You ain't gonna see them otherwise. Indie labels rip off artists way more than any major label. That's the way it goes. Indies are trying to become major labels, and they ain't gonna do that if they're kickin the cheese down to you. Indies are usually considered the "trenches" of musical warfare. Every artist that does well on an indie has a good chance of scoring a major label deal, and they all try. You gotta remember, most people ain't gonna make it. It takes a combination of extraordinary talent, ingenius marketing, and a huge stroke of luck to make it as a successful artist. "Making a living" on an indie label may pay the bills for a little while, and you may even get some sort of underground status, but that ain't gonna do nothing for you when you're forty. Make sure that you have a GOOD lawyer before you sign anything. Ignorance will be exploited in any business. Spit game.

but I do like Lee's mom from Beat Street said, "have something to fall back on" I know the prospects of me ever being a major known artist are slim and none, and thats not my goal anyways, but don't as they say, put all your eggs in one basket. Unless you have a large amount of money backing your projects, make sure you have a real full time job. Another thing I've noticed in recording sessions at studios, too many people try to make it a party atmosphere instead of just going there to do work. Pizza, brew, bud, girls, etc. all take away from what your trying to accomplish in a studio. Too many heads are just trying to live the video they see on tv. Ahh I love ignorant heads, they make me feel so much smarter

Everyone should go and download the song Del "Del's Nightmare".
Pay close attention to the second verse.
If anyone is unfamiliar with Del, he is the main mc from Oakland's Hieroglyphics. He was on a major label (Elektra) before they dropped him. The song is basically all about how labels will **** you over. How they have the stupidist business practices: "They push the acts that need it the least, so they can get all the money they can when it's released".

Even if you don't like hip hop, hear this song.

If you know that you want to make money, but aren't consumed with the greed of making millions, then go independent.

All I want to do is have my shit on viynl! I will be happy.

Peace

Damn y'all... I didnt mean to blow up so much shit here. Im trying to get together my own label, and my mom is doing a lot of the legwork. I bought a book by Donald Passman "Everything you need to know about the music industry" That is damn near the bible for Music Business. I have heard about this "point system" and just wanted to get to know the shit a little bit better. Freq... I give you props man, cause your totally correct. If people would be smarter about their business, they wouldnt get hustled by these big ass major labels. Everything in life is a hustle. You have your small time street hustlin', your big time business hustlin, and then your hella big government hustlin'. We live in this world, so we must learn to be smarter and not take everything we have for real. Dont get me wrong, their are a lot of artists who just dont "know" the music industry, so they are easily hustled, but then you have your just plain out... "Im a dumb ass, and im gonna go get platinum teeth, a new H2 Hummer, and a $10 million mansion, and just hope that i sell a million copies, and my label helps me." When i go into the studio at $70/hour, no one f*cks around, and its all business. And anyone that does want to F*ck around can foot the bill for studio time, or never bring their ass back in. I have made some of these mistakes, but tha main thing is you learn from your mistakes, and keep pressin. Oh, and by the way... the only race i believe in is the human race, because i was born half white/half mexican. So its not cool for u to talk all this shit mr. richienunchucks. If you got beef, kook it and eat it. nuf said. im out.

"Another thing I've noticed in recording sessions at studios, too many people try to make it a party atmosphere instead of just going there to do work. Pizza, brew, bud, girls, etc. all take away from what your trying to accomplish in a studio. Too many heads are just trying to live the video they see on tv. Ahh I love ignorant heads, they make me feel so much smarter"

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j smacks speaks the truth.. freq on the other hand not really.. yeah it's true that many indie labels are trying to be big labels.. not a bad thing but there are suckas in every side of the game... but i guaran **** tee you that indide labels do not have nearly as much resources to thoroughly screw you over.. one.. not big enough pockets to handle a big lawsuit.. you're on more of a level playing field when arguments are concerned.. two.. the way record companies distribute and market their music do not have anything to do with the quality of the record per se.. most people who push the business side of the deal do not look for quality.. they look for formulas and they look for immediate buzz.. i am positive that most people in the industry outside of being an a & r do not listen to even a single note of the record that they are handling... three.. being smart about business is key to any success.. and that hustle work ethic you speak of will translate easier into the indie setting than the major label setting.. they pick your producers.. they pick your studio, they pick the engineers, they pick the brand of reel you're using, and they 'll be damned if they don't set the tempo and the mood of the record.. and finally, eating at an indie label means you're selling fraction of the records that you'd need to sell at a major label.. you push 20 thousand at a indie (once again, i can't stress enough that all indie labels are not the same and most indie labels that work well are ones that are owned by the artist themselves), the profit goes straight into your pocket and the labels pocket.. every record you sell at a major label, you're getting about 35 cents or less depending on how much you've contributed to the record.. most beat makers are not executive producers, and they do not get as paid nearly as much.. at an idie, most auxillary personnel gets flat fees and the money gets divided into a much smaller group. if your deal with an indie lable is for 15 Percent of the royalties.., you get pretty much 15 percent..Look it up.. most indie's deal in 50 25 25 terms.. the producers fee is about 15.. you sell 20 thousand , you looking at about 25 to 30 grand for you.. that's where the hustling comes in.. indie labels have more mcs that they got producers, so you definitely have the opportunity to hustle, where as in a major label, you're task is set. it's all about freedom and piece of mind... if you know you got skills, you don't need the major label stress.. only people without skills desperately need the help of a major label.. cause they need the marketing and the extra push... what are you gonna do when you're forty and you have thousands of records that you made that were never even sent out to the record stores for one reason or the other.. you can't sell them on your own cause you're legally no entitled to.. of course this can happen at an indie, but i guarantee you that the instances of artists being pushed aside for industry tricks will be a lot more scarce at an indie

j smacks speaks the truth.. freq on the other hand not really..

That's a funny comment coming from a cat who's sold ONE beat for a couple of dollars. I'm [i]in[i/] the game pad'na. I don't do nothin' else. Haven't for over 6 years now. My wife and two kids are eating off of record biz money. How can I not be speaking the truth? Oh, that's right - I must be trying to rip you off.

You don't know jacc about A&R other than what low level asswipes tell you. In Los Angeles, where I live, NOBODY sez b.s. like that - except for the people I ain't tryin' to associate myself with. That means anyone that doesn't have what it take to be successful, ie. the low level asswipes that spread the stuff you talkin' about. YOU are truly the master of your own destiny when it comes to your professional life. If you read, and understood, my previous post you wouldn't have written that article of dumbness.

If I used your logic, I'd be calling the plumber next time I had a toothache...

ma and freq have had problems in the past over dumb shit, he did get big headed typical rich LA **** dude on me for a minute.....but in this case, listen to the brother, hes trying to help you people out...and i can tell you, indies AINT NO BETTER!!!! Whether it be a fruity little white boy label putting out off beat shit on 7" or some straight hustlers putting out the local gangsters with the covers that all look the same, your still gonna get pimped as a producer....

And yes the industry does have its problems, but if your even thinking about selling beat (im not) or getting involved with this shit professionally, listen to freq...

Boogie Man wrote:but I do like Lee's mom from Beat Street said, "have something to fall back on"

Lee was in Wild Style. I'm an ex graff writer, i know all that shit.

Wild Style vs. Beat Street - that's a whole new debate in itself! Personally, I lean towards Beat Street. I used to sport Lee jeans, LeTigre shirts, Cazals (fake, with no lenses for xtra b-boy effect), and a Kangol on some major wannabe Lee (the character) shiz.

"All your homeboys is biters!" - Lee circa 1984