BPM's differ in MPC and Pro Tools

I don't get it. I'm using Midi Beat Clock to sync and triggering the MPC to start from Pro Tools. I have the tempo set to the same value on both MPC and Pro Tools, but it seems Protools is moving just a tad bit slower. There is a slight delay between sequence changes when recording a song. It's just small enough to throw off a loop a little bit and change the feel a bit which I obviously don't want. I know this is happening because I recorded audio from mpc without midi beat clock sync, but with the grid map showing at the same tempo in pro tools - and when i manually shift the one of the beat on top of the one on the pro tools map - it slowly drifts as the song plays and eventually the one (mpc audio) moves in front of the one on the grid map. Hope that made sense. Is 90 bpm on the MPC not quite equal to 90bpm in pro tools? Should I be using Midi Time Code instead of Midi Beat Clock? What Gives?

Try repeating your sequences (seperate each sound in the sequence). Record your verse sequence, chorus sequence, break-downs etc... Then you can move each part where you want it to go. Just repeat parts to fit your song. Thats how I and many other cats do it. I NEVER run a whole song all the way through thats a waste of time and time is money.

Then there will still be a slight gap between sequences when I attach a copy of a sequence next to itself on the tempo grid map. Because the recorded sequence finishes a little short of the next one count on the grid map. The problem seems that Protools tempo map is slightly different than the tempo of the MPC even though they're set to the same numerical value. Is this possible?

You can avoid these problems by just recording each sequence one at a time. NOT in song mode but one at a time. There will be no delay if there's only one sequence being played. All you need is (1) loop of each sequence, then you can rock the grid!!! It's real simple.

The problem seems that Protools tempo map is slightly different than the tempo of the MPC even though they're set to the same numerical value. Is this possible?

Yes ... If I put a track I did at 125 bpm on the MPC into Logic to edit it, setting the tempo in Logic accurately will end up with a reading of around 124.9943. Before I had an MPC I used an Alesis MMT8 sequencer. Again, if I put a loop I had made up on that at 125 into the MPC I would need to tweak that very slightly to get it to run smoothly. Different equipment has very slight differences in their clocks, & I think with older gear like the MMT8 if the memory is pretty full it can slow things down further.

I'd imagine that with slower tempos this will be more noticeable since the difference between 90 & 91 bpms is a lot more than the difference between 124 & 125.

Doc - tried what you said, and made a loop on the grid, but the loop still does not sound the same when played back in pro tools as it does on the MPC - so I'm still thinking this is because of clock timing differences between the MPC and Pro Tools, or in feathers case, Logic. So how would one go about determining the timing difference so that I can adjust the Pro Tools tempo to match exactly the MPC's tempo? Feather - how did you find the difference in Logic?

What I'm doing is putting old tracks I did on the MPC a few years ago into Logic & then working out the correct tempo with markers on the stereo waveform. But then I'm just adding to or editing the track in Logic. I'm not doing anything extra with the MPC.

I'm just wondering from your original post if you have the MPC & ProTools properly synced. If you are just sending a start signal from ProTools to the MPC they are going to then drift out of time slightly unless you have the MPC properly slaved.

Well, I think I have it set up right? When I press the spacebar on the comp, the mpc begins playing. On the MPC I have
Sync In - In:2
Mode: MIDI Clock
Shift early (ms): 0
Receive MMC: OFF

Sync Outs ore off because pro tools should be the master (I Think, right?)

On pro tools I Have Midi Beat Clock enabled and I have to enter the tempo manually - which I enter the same tempo as displayed on MPC.

Does this sound right?

i had a similar issue with cubase SE and the mpc when syncing them together..

but my difference was even larger...it was a 6 bpm difference..90bpm on the mpc would sound like 84 bpm on cubase..
my only remedy was to lower the bpm by 6 on cubase each and every time I do any type of recording to keep the 'original mpc sound'.

It seems to me that the problem isn't a bpm problem but a latency problem due to the sequence changes. Everytime you change the sequence while PT is recording it's takin time for the midi sync to catch up.

I think the simplest solution to this problem is to arrange all your sequences in song mode and then convert it back to a sequence and then record it.

try using MTC i have used this in song mode and everything syncs perfectly.

it would seem that MTC and configuring the frame rate correctly would make this work.

According to digidesign themselves...

http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.php? ... Post800244