Do you build up Sequences or Tracks on Seq

I'm wondering how people on here are building up there songs.

Do you build up differnt sequences or build up different tracks on one sequence? Like Seq. 1 track 1-2-3 and so on.

I know to each their own, just wanted to hear how some of you guys do it.

I think the 8 out would strealine it for me, but tracking into PT from the MPC works well using the solo and track +/-

I only have the 2 stereo out

I guess the ? is, only using the 2 stereo out, how would someone trackout a song they wrote in "song" mode on the MPC to a multitrack recording program?

Before I had the 8/out, I would "solo" each sound into PT (or track mute) in song mode. Then in PT, using the grabber tool, I would line everything up.

There is probably a better way of doing it, but thats how I did it when I had the mbox and only stereo out.

You know, I would also appreciate if someone could break it down. Whats the best way to build a complex track (so to speak)? I mean like right now what I'm doing is basically using one sequence as an entire beat...So track 1 will usually be the melody, track 2 the drums...etc...And when I'm showing off my beats or tracking to my pc (via this cheap sound card) I have to use the mute track button...and sometimes its impossibly to turn on/off more than one sound simultaneously...I rather just build the entire song linear rather than every track on a 2 bar loop...ya dig? So whats the best way to program your joints!

your doing it all wrong

if track 1 & seq 1 is your melody.... then copy track 1 to seq 2,(LOOK IN THE MANUEL) then both will have the melody,then on track 2 -seq 2 over dub a drum line,copy that to seq 3 add bass line ect........
get it, you got to f*ck around...
and when your got your beat and you want to switch up the bass ,melody,drum,ect... you switch the seq

usally you want 4 bar or 8 bar seq's, but to eachs own f*ck wit that ish

i dont know about your way????

to bring the beat in, end it,and for the hook..
how do you get the bass, melody,and drums to play all at once, then bring it down to the bass and melody, then down to just melody?

Exactly...I knew I was doing it wrong because it didnt seem practical to have to mute certain tracks @ certain time's....So assigning each track to its own sequence is how you do it. Okay, I'm gonna have to do some experimenting right now...because like I said, I want to be able to just turn that Issh on and walk away and just let the music play! (damn I'm a poet and I didnt even know it ).

dude how long have you had your mpc

you can have up to 64 tracks per seq.
you put sequences togeather to get songs.
for example

load track 1 drum 1 with a drum program
load track2 drum 2 with a bass program
and load track 3 drum3 with a string, or keys,or somthing for the harmony
part.
so on, and so on...

now you have your sound assignd to different tracks.

now on seq 1 put it to 4 bars FOR NOW KEEP THEM ALL AT 4, make a drum beat,loop it.

now take seq1(drumbeat loop)and go to edit, copy seq 1 track1, to seq 2 track 1.
now seq 1&2 are drum loop.

put the track to 2 and drum to 2.
go to seq 2 over dub the bass line....
now you play seq 1 for a couple of loops then swith to seq 2.
and wa la
your drumloop plays then the bass comes in

now if you can do these steps over w different tracks you might be able to make a song

DUDE YOU DEFFENTLY NEED NEED NEED TO READ THE MANUEL
CAUSE YOU LACK KNOWLAGE
PEACE SOUTH SIDE SAN JO

Yeah, I'm still a newbie with alot on my plate right now, so when I'm in the lab I'm just pressing buttons and tinkering still ya know. Good looking out though, you did brake it down brah'. And as far as reading the manual I'd much rather bug you guys . Peace!

This is how I do it. On Seq. 1 Ill do the meat of the beat. So all the sounds I plan on using will be on seq. 1. Then I name the seq 1 to Main, anything really just so you know which seq was the one you started with. I then copy the seq 1 to seq 2. In seq. 2 I start to take out parts of the beat, like strings, hits, hats, ect. . .I usually find something I would like to use for the hook or the bridge. Then I name seq 2 according to what I MIGHT use it for. Then repeat the steps. Then go to song mode. Place my seq. in the order I might like to hear them in. The rest is up to your imagination. Now pls. dont ask how you get there, its in the manual, a whole chapter so its hard to miss!

On a side note I have never copied track to track to track. It sounds like an interesting technique though. What are the benefits of doing it this way?

For real tho'! I'm definitely absorbing that manual, But like the guy who started this thread I'm intrested in how you guys program your beats cuz' I was obviously on the wrong page .

" If your from the mid-west and it dosent matter where say...Shhhh, say Shhh.....If you can drink the tap water and breath the air say...Shhh, say Shhh." - Slug. Ha Ha Minneapolis REPRESENT! - Peace from Cali!

just keep at that ish

when I want to do a complex arrangement, I do a couple tracks to each sequence, then I copy the tracks I want to use in another sequence and add parts for the ones that I DIDN'T copy, to replace them, so on and so forth...

thanks for all the input. what i was trying to figure out was how to track it. i do like toecutter says, building up a few tracks on different sequences. but when i want to record it all in pro tools it will be a stereo mix. so how do i program a song with different sequences and track it out into PT with only the stereo outs?

It takes awhile to get used to but follow the tips above and you'll start coming up with more & more ways to make a track.

One

A Recipe For Typical Songs

Start with Drums

Start with one or two bars of Hi Hat, on a quantized grid, input notes with different velocities. (eighth notes typically for rock, 16th notes for dance)
Lay down the same bars of bass drum. (Beats 1 and 3 for rock, ballads, etc., 1,2,3,4 for dance) (Go ahead, add leading notes, experiment--you are building a house, make the foundation strong and weather-worthy.)
Position and choose the snare. (Normally to beats 2 and 4) (Yes, add a frill, a flam, and flirt with this essential backbeat). Don't add the Toms yet, or anything else.
Copy this sequence to bars 1-8 (verse), then copy it again to 9-17 (chorus)
Using Audio Loops? No Prob. Just find the beat you like and lay it down. TIP: Even if you have the same loop repeating you should put it down a least every 5 bars. Even the best cut loops go out of sync if you try to run them 16 or more bars.

Doing Trance? Many pieces that have made a lot of money just start with a kick for 4 bars, and the hats the next few bars, then the snares all culminating in a snare roll. The rest of the rules below don't necessarily apply. Trance works by building up elements and dropping them out and adding new ones. Sort of like driving your car on the expressway with an every changing landscape, with the throbbing of the motor keeping it all unified.


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Add Bass for Chorus

Back to a standard song. Do a baseline for the chorus. Take your sweet time and experiment till you find something you really like--do not settle for "anything", and avoid tweaking reverbs, FX--just get the bass right. You do not have to sound like Jaco the Great here. The most powerful basslines in our music are very simple play-offs of octaves and fifths. Or its a simple walk up or down the scale. Or in some Trance music, just playing the same note in a straight run of 16th notes, deleting a couple at random and raising one note a half step. Make sure you LIKE what you have given birth to. Groove it, twist it, torture it. When your inner censor says "Wow, Cool!" move on to....
Using Loops? Then find the bass loop you like. Note that it will probably take you longer to find one you like than making one from scratch.

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Add Melody for Chorus

Add a simple melody line, same as above, to the chorus. (Note we do the chorus before the verse). Play around a long time. What possibilities does the bass open up? Don't like it? Fire the Bass player and get a new one. Try different tempos. What's your mood? Try to match it with your inner rhythm of the moment. You are looking for a statement, so listen for it. its very common for sudden little sparks and flashes of meaning, but the hand might not know how to get there. Keep at it. When you are close, if you are not adept at keys, take a look in the grid editor and see what you have and move things around till they speak. In traditional rock, country, ballads, etc., the melody is the part sung. If you are doing something dancey, a one or two bar looped pattern of 8th or 16th notes go here.
Keep it simple, even if its stupid and sing-songy. Dude, think about jingle bells or yankee doodle. Or the Beatles "She Loves you Ya, Ya Ya." Stupid melodies WIN HEARTS BIG TIME! If you have any doubt, just turn on the radio to ANY channel and listen to melodies. They are simple, catchy, easy. Even you jazz buffs, go watch a concert of avante gard players and watch the AUDIENCE. They only clap when someone does something simple (or finishes an overly long solo, thank god).

Using loops? Here you have to do major digging to find something that is going to define and carry the piece. Keep you bassline running as you audition different arpeggios, (Arps). As above, be patient and try lots of things. you are looking for something to "lock". If you don't have to use loops, here is the place you want to try your hand at the keys and come up with something fresh.


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Do the same as above for the Verse

Go to the verse and do the bassline and melody line. Same process as above. Lots of new composers have a little trouble here. The trouble begins usually when you start thinking of how these things must be different. Think of the melody as a friend you have that you want to introduce. The verse is the part that gets everyone ready for the chorus. Now if you were a chorus (stay with me now) what would you want the verse to do? Of course, you egotist, you would want it to build you up, roll out the red carpet, say all kinds of great things about you. That way, when you the chorus takes the stage you can fly. Tension/Release. Question/Answer. These metaphors don't always hold. (Hey there's NO Rules), but they will get the new composer over the hump. Once you have a few successes with music, you will feel a freedom and all of this will become second nature.
Consider the basic form of the Arrangement

Now let me introduce the basic structure of the Arrangement. The Verse is sometimes called the "A" Section. The Chorus is called the "B" Section. There is usually a "C" Section too. We'll get into that in a bit. There is also an Introduction and and Ending
Your homework assignment: Do you really want to get good at music? I mean really? Then you will do this painless exercise at least once. Get our your favorite CDs. Get a pencil and paper. Write down the structure of your favorite songs. Count out how many bars each section goes. It's easy. And in the space of one hour you will have MUCH more songwriting wisdom than you had before you did this. This is better than any book you can buy. Want to know what the top arrangers are doing? Sheesh, the secrets are all out there plain as day! All you have to do is count the piece out. Want to get your Tweak on fast? Go straight to Britney Spears, Madonna, Christina Aguilera. Open your mind. Those arrangers are in the bux big time cause they know how to hook you. Count out their little secret. You will have new respect for them and how they play with the hidden rules in our minds of what contemporary music must be.

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You don't really have to start with drums, then bass then chorus, etc. Learn more about musical inspiration. Sometimes the bass will give you the hook. Sometimes you just get a hum-able melody. Then you add drums and get a major Eureka! But to get a new composer up to speed, try my little method.


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Mechanics of Building the Arrangement

Copy bars 1-8 to 17-24 (These are the "A" Sections)
Copy bars 9-16 to 25-32 (These are the "B" Sections)
Your "core song" is now complete. Evaluate. Do you like it? If so, Continue. If not, start over. Don't waste another second on something you don't like. A good song will "pull you in" at this point. A great song will feel like time has stopped and you'll feel irresistible elation, a willingness to throw yourself on the alter of humanity, and a desire to stay up all night to cull this out. As funny as that sounds, experienced composers know its true. When you stumble upon a great song, you will know it and you will be in total awe as its beauty reveals itself to you.
Go ahead and orchestrate (i.e., add different instruments that "go together") some instruments with the melody. Find the best patches, experiment with contrast, put a different sound in each frequency range. Avoid sounds that compete with each other. Imagine they are people actually playing the instruments. Make them earn their union wage, but don't piss them off with incredibly unrealistic passages, except when you have to. Remember, you are the boss, here.
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Develop a "break" (The "C" Section) or counter melody or variation to fit into bars 32-48. It is OK to copy the drums from the verse section, just remember to change them a bit later on. Don't forget that drummers need a little break.
Orchestrate the break
Move the entire construction so it starts at bar 9
Develop an introduction.
Develop an ending. Congratulations! Your song skeleton is complete.
Go back and listen to the whole thing a few times. What are you hearing? How can you make the piece unforgettable?
Adjust the tempo
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Work on each sequence till it does what you want it to do. Break the rules of form if necessary. If it doesn't "fit" you need...
Transitions! Add gaps, pauses, extra bars. This really adds drama and excitement.
Fix the drums--add and delete parts so it does not sound mechanical, unless you are writing disco .
Add frills, ornaments and transitions, double parts that need emphasis.
Set the midi volume and pan for each channel. Give each instrument is own sonic space. Pretend you are in the front row and you are looking at the stage. Always center the bass and kick drum to get started.
Go through each track, cleaning up bad notes, trying alternate patches
Start setting up FX patches and mixing board EQ, gain stages, etc.
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Every Song has a Story

Q:) What does it mean when someone calls their music "Ambient", Drum 'n Bass", "Jungle" "Trance".
A) Here's a good page which defines them all.

Sit back and listen. What does this song Mean? What is its message? What is it Like? If you really like it, a word or a phrase or some kind of meaning will pop up. Think of the whole song in light of the new found Meaning.
Ask yourself what it would take to make the piece truly memorable. The meaning will tell you what to do.
Do that. The song will start sounding like a story. Now you are ready for the...
Climax! Copy chorus 2 to chorus 3. Double instruments. Possibly write a new variation on the melody. Possibly put the melody and countermelody on top of each other--see what happens.
Tweak the climax, add, delete, transform, extend. You are the boss. Make a Statement. Go all out. Triple instruments if you have to, stack them sounds up.
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Write the Ending again if necessary
Go back to each part, starting at the last, this time, and tweak it all down to where you are happy
Add slight tempo changes, track offsets--especially the snare---, and add humanization if appropriate to quantized parts.
Listen. What needs to be changed to make the story a good story. Do it. This may take an hour, or a week.
Turn on the master deck, set levels, and do a rough mix.

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