Do the DAC's on the MPC2000XL just suck...

Yes, what's called 'one-shot' on S-series samplers is what happens when you select 'mono' or 'poly' on the MPC, as opposed to 'note off' (in the 'overlap' parameter on the program>parameters page). Those modes cause samples to play all the way though, regardless of how long you press the pad.

'Mono' mode does NOT make a stereo sample mono. It's called 'mono' because it causes the samples to act the way a monophonic synth does; if a sound is playing, and you trigger it again from the same pad, it cuts off the previous instance of that sound. In 'poly' mode both instances would sound together.

If 'overlap' is set to 'note off' mode, the sample will play only for as long as the pad is pressed - which would explain the missing decay if you're hitting the pads drum-machine style. When the half the sound is missing you might think it also sounds 'thinner', while in fact it just sounds shorter. Samples can also be made to sound shorter in the 'envelope' settings - make sure 'decay md' is set to 'end' and that the decay is not too long (the default is 5).

If your samples just sound 'thinner' coming out of the MPC than they do coming out of the computer, you might have a faulty cable or a phase problem. If the left and right channels are out of phase, part of the sound gets cancelled out, and the low end is the first to be affected by this. Check all cables and of course the phase, EQ and filter controls on your desk.

lo-fi wrote:Yes, what's called 'one-shot' on S-series samplers is what happens when you select 'mono' or 'poly' on the MPC, as opposed to 'note off' (in the 'overlap' parameter on the program>parameters page). Those modes cause samples to play all the way though, regardless of how long you press the pad.

'Mono' mode does NOT make a stereo sample mono. It's called 'mono' because it causes the samples to act the way a monophonic synth does; if a sound is playing, and you trigger it again from the same pad, it cuts off the previous instance of that sound. In 'poly' mode both instances would sound together.

If 'overlap' is set to 'note off' mode, the sample will play only for as long as the pad is pressed - which would explain the missing decay if you're hitting the pads drum-machine style. When the half the sound is missing you might think it also sounds 'thinner', while in fact it just sounds shorter. Samples can also be made to sound shorter in the 'envelope' settings - make sure 'decay md' is set to 'end' and that the decay is not too long (the default is 5).

If your samples just sound 'thinner' coming out of the MPC than they do coming out of the computer, you might have a faulty cable or a phase problem. If the left and right channels are out of phase, part of the sound gets cancelled out, and the low end is the first to be affected by this. Check all cables and of course the phase, EQ and filter controls on your desk.

Thanks for the advice. Well, I don't think it's the cables because, from the computer, I load the sound on a zip and then up it in the MP. And I don't think it's the zip because the same thing happened when I used floppies (oh, those were the days). But, um, I guess I might try just recording the drum sound into the MP and going about it that way.

I want to let everyone who is having the same problem as myself know that there is a workaround using Recycle. If you up the stretch parameter to the max and then pull the decay down to about 4-5 ms, that should stretch the sound out enough to avoid the "blip" sound, but the sound might still sound a little light in the ass compared to what it sounds like in Soundforge, so, it's just a temporary bypass.

Remedial wrote:Or is it just me?

I'm really trying to figure this out.

I'll have a banging ass drum sound playing from my comp, load it up into the MP, and it sounds nothing like what I just heard. All thin and and somehow th MP cut off like a good amount of the decay.

What the hell is up with this?

I'm seriously thinking of purchasing another piece to replace my 2000. This shouldn't be (walks off pouting like a bitter ****).

same here

I HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS WHEN USING RECYCLE SO NOW I SAMPLE DIRECT INTO THE MACHINE.

I Still think the 3000 sounds the best by far.........anything you sample into it sounds amazing......you have to work harder to get the xl to rock.

Remedial wrote:

featherboy wrote:Is the MPC going through a mixer? Could it be that thinning the sound?

When you say

I'll have a banging ass drum sound playing from my comp, load it up into the MP, and it sounds nothing like what I just heard.

are you sampling the sound from the computer, or just exporting the sample via zip or whatever you use?

Also, is the sound that is really good on your computer going through any eq, effects or boosting in whatever computer program is playing it?

I'm loading from a zip. Also, I try to keep the signal on my monitors as flat as possible, but I may be messing up somewhere along the way, so I'll check. But I still don't understand why the decay on my sounds is getting deleted. Unless I go into Recycle and stretch the sound, it just sounds like a blip (specifically kicks). This upsets me a lot, especially I just spent like 20 minutes eq'ing and compressing the sound.

I'm really hoping I don't have a dud. I'd have to find someone with one to compare.

Don't mean to point out the obvious, but are you making SURE that Sound Forge is saving the documents as 44kHz, 16-bit files? That could explain the "blip" effect you describe, if the sample rate or bit depth is wrong (or maybe the MPC wouldn't even attempt to load files like this....don't know, never tried).

The other thing that I didn't notice (if it IS somewhere in the thread I apologize), but make sure your gain settings are the exact same for your computer as for your MPC and your computer. Not necessarily just the actual fader position for each of the channels, but also the output level of each and make sure this is correctly set on your desk if possible. For example, the MPC should be outputting its line level at +4 dBu, whereas a LOT of sound cards output at -10 dBV (the "consumer" standard output. If your desk is expecting a +4 signal and gets a -10 (or some weird level), it won't be matched correctly, and this will affect volume levels and because of this the perceived "punchiness" or loudness of the sound. It's possible that for some reason your sound card (if it is consumer level, like a Soundblaster Audigy or something similar) is outputting at a much HIGHER level than +4, thereby making the audio coming out of it seem a lot bigger and louder and such. Most good audio interfaces allow you to set the output and input levels either individually or as a set, as do many desks. Make sure to actually solo the sound from the MPC on your desk and also the sound from your computer and make sure they're both hitting the same dB level on your desk.

Also make sure you're using balanced cables if the desk/computer/MPC can all use them.....this can make a lot of difference in the sound.

Anecdotally, a LOT of peoples' A/B testing of gear is flawed in that they don't ensure the levels are exactly matched, often making one of them sound a lot better (usually the louder of the two...). I've seen people at local music shops A/B montiors and not have them level matched and buy total shite monitors just because they happened to be slightly louder and sounded punchier or more bass-responsive.

Anyway, this is just my $0.02....YMMV.



Peace,

MANiK

DO YOU have differant speakers attached to the computer as you do to the mpc?

Remedial wrote:

mpc3000 wrote:Change the note type to One Shot on the MPC. That way it plays out instead of playing only for the duration of the midi note. Explore your MPC. It appears that many people have not edited and manipulated samples directly in the MPC, else this would have been found.

This is likely a good example where a computer actually interferes with the process.


"If my one statement could be generalized for the entire family, then that wouldn't be good for business"

That is not the point. Akai would have went out of business years ago if they used inadequate DAC's. There is obviously a problem with the way you are hearing them, which could be anything from not knowing what the software you are using is doing to the hardware side of the monitoring system.


"they are no Apogee's"

Duh, of course not, and it is a silly statement. How could you compare the cost of a DAC that costs more than the equipment itself? So tell me, how many other sampler manufacturers put apogee in their sub 1500 gear?

First question, does one shot=mono? Also, there's no need to come off condescending to me, dog, calling my comments silly and ****. I was just making a comment, as you have. I understand that you may have a better working knowledge of this piece of gear than myself, but that still gives you no right to walk around here all pompous and ****. I appreciate your help, but I don't need someone who's going to kick me in the ass in the process. If that's the case, then I'd rather not have your help, dog.

dog, people buy the mpcs because of thier DACs. yes mpc3000 is right. Of course its gonna sound differnt. Thats why people buy shit because of the DACs. Put the same sample in a mpc, then put it in a sp1200, and you will have a completely differant sound; whether its warmer, phatter, or what ever. Same goes for the computer.

dog, people buy the mpcs because of thier DACs. yes mpc3000 is right. Of course its gonna sound differnt. Thats why people buy **** because of the DACs. Put the same sample in a mpc, then put it in a sp1200, and you will have a completely differant sound; whether its warmer, phatter, or what ever. Same goes for the computer.[/quote]

Really, you're preaching to the choir. I understand that many people "possibly" purchase the MP for its sound (although I've never heard anyone list that as their reason). I've sold these things before, so don't get me confused with some johnny come lately. But, what I'm saying is, maybe the soundcard that I use may have better DAC's than the MPC OR maybe something else in the process (the zip, etc...) is affecting the nature of the sound. That's it.

I mean, I could understand if my main problem was the sound being different, but damn near the whole decay is gone (along with the flat in the ass sound).

Really, you guys are acting like its not possible that the DAC's might not be that great, especially in comparison to newer gear, such as soundcards, etc...

Also, the trend is for more people to rave about the sound of the 12 bit gear (MPC 60, SP 1200), than the 16 bit.

quote]


Don't mean to point out the obvious, but are you making SURE that Sound Forge is saving the documents as 44kHz, 16-bit files? That could explain the "blip" effect you describe, if the sample rate or bit depth is wrong (or maybe the MPC wouldn't even attempt to load files like this....don't know, never tried).

Yep, I save all my sounds as 44.1K, 16 bit. Otherwise the MP would give me a problem loading it if I tried it at a higher rate.

The other thing that I didn't notice (if it IS somewhere in the thread I apologize), but make sure your gain settings are the exact same for your computer as for your MPC and your computer. Not necessarily just the actual fader position for each of the channels, but also the output level of each and make sure this is correctly set on your desk if possible. For example, the MPC should be outputting its line level at +4 dBu, whereas a LOT of sound cards output at -10 dBV (the "consumer" standard output. If your desk is expecting a +4 signal and gets a -10 (or some weird level), it won't be matched correctly, and this will affect volume levels and because of this the perceived "punchiness" or loudness of the sound. It's possible that for some reason your sound card (if it is consumer level, like a Soundblaster Audigy or something similar) is outputting at a much HIGHER level than +4, thereby making the audio coming out of it seem a lot bigger and louder and such. Most good audio interfaces allow you to set the output and input levels either individually or as a set, as do many desks. Make sure to actually solo the sound from the MPC on your desk and also the sound from your computer and make sure they're both hitting the same dB level on your desk.

My soundcard does have the option to choose between +4 and -10 (M Audio Quattro), for input and the output. I will check this to make sure that this isn't the problem, but last I checked it was at +4.

Also make sure you're using balanced cables if the desk/computer/MPC can all use them.....this can make a lot of difference in the sound.

Yep, tip-ring-sleeve all the way around.

Anecdotally, a LOT of peoples' A/B testing of gear is flawed in that they don't ensure the levels are exactly matched, often making one of them sound a lot better (usually the louder of the two...). I've seen people at local music shops A/B montiors and not have them level matched and buy total **** monitors just because they happened to be slightly louder and sounded punchier or more bass-responsive.

Great tip. Need to remember that one.

Anyway, this is just my $0.02....YMMV.



Peace,

MANiK[/quote]

Remedial wrote:Well, I don't think it's the cables because, from the computer, I load the sound on a zip and then up it in the MP.

I mean the cables going from the MPC to the desk. Faulty cables, phase problems, -10/+4 levels, that could account for the thinner sound. The missing decay is weird though - it wasn't something to do with the settings I mentioned?

What happens when you route the outs from the soundcard trough the ADC and DAC of the MPC and play some music directly through that?

Yeah man, im not comming sideways at you or nothing.

But for all intensive puroses, say that the DACs arent bad: it sounds like you have more problems then the dacs would cause.

Maybe here are some more ideas to help you out:

Do you have 8 outs? maybe there is a loose connection

check all your settings again. Maybe create a new pgm from scratch, and assign the sample.

Check trim mode too, because sometimes the mpc automatically trims up a few notches. And also the image in trim mode doesnt always match up to what it sounds like. Someitimes its slightly off.

WHAT OS do you have? do you have the latest?

There is a setting called decay, and it is set to 5 by default. That is, it fades out the end of the sample unless it is set to zero. It does affect short samples (such as kicks).

It is going to a user issue. Here we have 2 or 3 people reporting this and there are over 25,000 other MPC users out there that are not.

mpc3000 wrote:There is a setting called decay, and it is set to 5 by default. That is, it fades out the end of the sample unless it is set to zero. It does affect short samples (such as kicks).

It is going to a user issue. Here we have 2 or 3 people reporting this and there are over 25,000 other MPC users out there that are not.

Those 24,997 other MPC users aren't on this website and haven't seen this post. If already 3-4 people on just this board (considering that many people stick to just one forum, i.e. Production Techniques), there must be others. So let's not count votes from those persons who weren't even aware of the election.

seriously, come on. I have never had a problem like you describe, nor have heard of that problem, before you mentioned it.

And it has nothing to do with the dacs, unless it is user issue like mpc3000 mentioned

Dacs are like speakers, all they do is interpet the sound. Of course 1 sound will sound differant on two differant sets of speakers. This is why we do a&b testing, and mastering, to get the sound to work good on all speakers. It applys similar to Dacs. You will get a diffearnt sound from 2 sets of dacs. You have to adjust your sound accordingly.

This is why people buy peices like the asr, sp1200, mpc3000, partly in due to the fact that the dacs respond the way they like. Ever try getting a sp1200 sound on a computer? Ever gett that same punchyness to your snares ont he computer? yes its possible, but its not inherntly as easy as it is on the mpc, or other peieces with their unique dacs.

And yes people do buy the mpc because they like the way it sounds. Youd be crazy to say differant. People rock the sp303 because of the way it sounds, and its **** cheap as hell and probably the shitest dacs ever! But thats the point.

That's right. We're just saying - Even though all DACs sound different, that difference can't possibly account for all the problems you're experiencing, especially the missing decay. Which leaves two possibilities:

a) Your MPC has a fault.
b) You are doing something wrong.

Based on statistic probability (so not to dis you or nothing), my money's on option b. So double-check all the suggestions mentioned in this thread.