Do you use the +6 , +12 dB option in mixer settings ?

Hi guys i know that this topic has been talk about but hey i got question do you ever use this option while tracking out lets say if i put it on +6 or + 12 dB while recording to DAW i am pushing the outputs and acts like limiter or compressor crushing the transients of snares and kicks but raising the levels of the samples like compressor.So the signal gets distorted and you need to watch out but in common audio sense is i guess is better to leave it 0db and even lower the levels half way down so we can have more headroom if the beat has a lot of elements so we can avoid clipping.

I know this option in the mixer settings is to raise the low level while sampling from weak audio sources. So when tracking out what do you think if we had good level on 0 dB we dont need to raise the levels ??

0db is usually fine for recording. I wouldn't go beyond +6db as it gets too distorted.

I was thinking the same thanks man for the answer

I've done a fair bit of A/B testing with different levels etc.
This is because I've heard about different myths of tracking out hot as possible without clipping/distorting - ultimately making it a warmer sound.

I didn't find any difference really only that it goes up in gain, I didn't hear any colouring in the signal as I was hoping to.

Another myth is that you record in as hot as possible, but you will get more white noise.
I also heard people saying that the main out's put out a slightly warmer sound that the 8-out expansion card, I don't have this to test with though.

Any thoughts on any of this? I'm generally interested in debunking these myths because people talk a lot of shit, so I test these methods myself.

Well said MrDismal ! i was testing the same myth you describe.What i had noticed is when tracking out hot yes the there is a difference in the loudness but if you bring the recorded track one which is recorded normal and the other one that is hot at the same level and listen to them like that there will be difference in the dynamics of the sound and most oblivious because you had slam the sound on the outputs you get distortion and clip and loose first the transients kicks and snares because they are louder in the mix and loose that punch.I had not notice any warm sound i am on 2kxl maybe older or analog samplers have that effect of warm.

I was recording thru main outputs i don't have 8 outputs .

So my conclusion is better to track out normal slamming the inputs outputs can be double age sword.

I use +6 & +12 all the time. Mostly because I have an EB16, and I set my FX send levels to where I like them, and am too lazy to go thru & raise individual sample levels & then re-set send levels as well. So if I need the signal hotter, I just turn up the output as necessary. Works like a charm.

As far as recording in as hot as possible, that's not a myth really. All you're doing is clipping the input converters, which distorts the signal. I do this all the time on drums, never on basses, and occasionally on other samples. It's basically a cheap & dirty way of adding distortion / compression. But it's also what makes MPC drums so "fat".

Thanks SEMS for shearing your thoughts on this topic and your way of use of the this option.

I don't know about getting a simulated compression sound from running the inputs hot, I've tried this. Distortion yes, but you gotta go gentle on it because it can be over done easily and sound like crap.
The only way I've ever gotten a compressed sound is recording to tape as this distorts nicely and turns to a nice fat saturation sound that is dope.
I'm on a 2KXL, so maybe older MPC's are different recording hot.

I also have an EB-16 board. I don't really understand why you'd need to use the overall output booster of +6 +12 if you don't change the individual samples. This will ultimately just change the gain in all output anyway, right?

Regardless of whether you set your levels right on your samples, FX levels, it won't correct them by apply +6 or +12 db.

Well, running the inputs hot is clipping, which is a form of limiting, which is a form of compression. The best way to describe what I do running the inputs hot is turning like a hi hat tschhh sound into tssssccchhhhhhh. I definitely don't go gentle. My claps look like blocks on the waveform display with a little tail at the end. Works for my music.

And as far as why I use the output booster, I wasn't clear, sorry. I track into an EL Fatso, and going into that I try to achieve a certain input level in order to get the Fatso to kick in its saturation circuit. So I raise & lower the Main Output knob as required while I track one by one. But some of my little swing hats or percussions are just so low in the mix. I still want them to hit the Fatso hard though, and even with the knob turned all the way it's not enough, so I use the +6 or +12. If I go into the mixer & turn up the individual pad for example, I'll also have to re-adjust the send level to the EB16, which I'd like to avoid. Does that make more sense now?

I would say clipping and limiting/compression are quite different in terms of audio output but that's my opinion.

I did have a question about it but I think I got it now aha, cheers for explaining.
Do you have any tracks to listen to for an example of how you use the clipping technique?

Is the El Fatso software or hardware? I've never heard of it.
There's plenty of good software saturation plugins that give a nice warm sound.

Yeah they're different for sure, but also similar in many regards. If you brick wall limit a sine wave for example, eventually you can squash the peaks to look more like a square wave, which is the same effect as if you clip it. Any time you push a limiter to distortion, you're achieving a similar sound to clipping, which is chopping off the peaks. I'd say all three things are sonic "cousins".

The Fatso is hardware, though there's also a plugin version for UAD. It's a tape simulator / saturator / compressor / high frequency saturator. There are some nice plugins that do similar things, but nothing that quite does the same thing as this. http://www.empiricallabs.com/fatso-jr.html

And as far as tracks that use my techniques, I clip all my drums on my Hip Hop stuff: http://www.audiomack.com/album/sems/the ... -evolution

And also in my House stuff: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 6OzfSBXQ7p

Pretty much all the drums in both projects use the exact same technique, just with different samples.

The Fatso i killer for drums for sure....I guess the sampling in hot is a personal preference and in audio there is no right way-wrong way.Before i moved on mpc2000xl i used in plugin on Drums and samples called Decimort bit crusher if you tune the right in and out on that plugin you can get some nice sound plus it have some MPC60 and sp1200 presents for sure they will not sound like the real thing but something you can do in digital domain.There is one interesting plugin called TAL Sampler who can sound like EMU.By the way nice tracks SEMS i like the direction you are going with your hip hop stuff

Of course if you look at the wavelength they will all look peaked, but sound different. I know what you mean though.

The fatso looks mean... but damn it's exxy though. That's a lot of dough to fatten up sounds.

I run the output of my MPC to 2x Presonus vacuum tube pre-amp strip channels. The sound that comes out of these is like my MPC has been on a McDonalds diet for 15 years.
I've got control of the Tube drive too which is handy, plus has compressor and EQ. I opened them both up and replaced the tubes with a 'JJ ECC83 S' which are known for extra punch.

....Then goes to my audio interface then track to PC.
That's the output signal chain of my MPC anyway.

Hey Weeman, I've messed with bit-crushers before, but I always found them too digital sounding and metallic. TAL Sampler I don't think I've messed with - rings a bell though, so probably did have it installed at some point through-out the years haha.

The Fatso is actually the crack. I've had it for almost 10 years now, and it's definitely paid for itself a few times over. Yeah it's a lotta cake, but it's definitely gotten me some gigs over the years. And it's literally been on every track I've done in those years in some form or another.

@MrDismal, good chain! I used to track stuff thru a Bellari pre back in the day, similar vibe to the Presonus one you have. Was definitely fat, loved hitting the Input Gain really hard on that too.

@Weeman, will have to check that TAL Sampler out. I didn't really like the SP12 & MPC60 emulations on Maschine, so hopefully that one's better. There's rumblings that Roland's working on a new sampler with emulation tech as well. And thanks for the shout on the Hip Hop stuff. Was just me playing around a couple years ago, nothing serious. I'll probably do one more tape this year & that'll be it. But thanks man!!