Technical questions for the MPC2000xl and the MPC2000
By Pischalla Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:34 am
I can´t figure out what´s the system behind the quantize function. I mean the later/earlier mode in combination whith swing and amount value. The question I have is: Can you say that certain combinations of the different parameters are equivalent to a certain type of groove? Of course I can see that the groove is changing but I have problems of recognizing a system. For example: 1/16, earlier, swing 55, amount 2. When I change the amount parameter to 3 the groove is completely different. Do I change it to 4 it sounds again similar to value 2. So, what´s that ??
Please help!!!!
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By McSmooth Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:30 pm
It can be very difficult to get the percise settings. I have yet to see a document that describes it percisely, but have had pretty good luck just trying everything out. The best method is to record without swing, then apply the swing after recording. That way you can easily try different values and undo them to try other settings.
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By trupro Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:55 pm
Word, cosine with MC smooth. Actually, there are people who have tried to devise ppq (pulse-per-quarternote) accurate emulations of the MPC swing template. On of my boys has settings he devised for cubase to do this...Reason is a good example. It does a good job of swinging individual tracks the same way that MPCs do it. Of course, with software sequencers, you don't have to master the earlier-later combinations with swing, because you can visually drag the note almost any ppq increment later or earlier. Anyway, if you know how to use any sequencer, you can get the same sound. It's just that the great thing about an MPC is, it's realtime quantizing is very forgiving, and so it 'catches' your playing better than alot of other hardware sequencers. Meaning, even with no quantizing on input, it just seems to 'know what you meant to do' when you go ahead and apply that quantizing.

Now, to the 2000XLs swing: What MC smooth said is very tru about quantizing each time AFTER you lay each midi track. This is especially true with the XL model. With the XL, (versus the classic) for some reason, when you do a swing setting combined with earlier/later, and use this quantize WHILE you record, you get really odd tripplet configurations.
Do it afterword...

And yes, no matter what you do, earlier and later will effect the swing as well. The higher both numbers, the more effect that will have, obviously. But also, they can effect each other's setting inversely as well. To understand this, think of swing as a 'shuffling' of notes, per track, on each individual midi track you apply it to. That is, think of it as moving the first note an tiny tiny bit forward, and the one after it a tiny bit later, almost impercieveably, every other note this way down the line, and so on. The more the swing, the more it does that. So if you apply a later setting, it will take a little bit of that away, because you've now reduced the amount of 'earliness' that the swing setting gave to every other note. A good thing to remember is that the harder you swing, the earlier the notes will sound, so using a 'later' setting can soften that effect and offset it a bit. Of course, all this is dependent on the truncation of each sample, and the attack of it or any midi patch you use. Everything is dependant on everything else.

Whether you lay down tracks with the quantizing on during input, or apply after, You can't go wrong with just hard quantizing everything to 50% 16th notes with no swing, and then adjusting from there and re-apply. Also, remember always that it's not cumulative. What you enter when you hit 'do it' is what you get. Each time, not additive, so you are 'overwriting', not adding on to the quantize/swing each time. Also, remeber that it's not 'shuffle' like a roland sequencer, that moves every track in the song in relation to each other. It's per track, and the relativity to every other track is up to you! Even when you select "All" (or note 0-127 if it's a midi track), you are effecting 'all' notes in that track you opened the window on.

By Pischalla Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:44 pm
Hey guys,

thank you for your high quality information. Some good new insights into the topic for me. And also a lot of confirmation of my interpretation of how the machine is working. One more question: What about the first note? I sometimes have the impression that there is a little tumbling.
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By trupro Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:07 pm
What do you mean by the terms 'first note' and 'tumbling'?
By Pischalla Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:45 am
The first note in the loop. I mean, when you put the bars on 2 e.g. and when it jumps to the starting point again. Then there is a little delay (tumbling in the groove) as if the mpc doesn´t quantize the first note (position 01.00.00). Sometimes i´m not sure if it´s really like this or if it´s just something funny in my mind. But a while ago, somebody told me (an akai service-guy) that you have to quantize the very first note by hand when you apply an earlier timing because the machine cannot do it.
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By Lampdog Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
The loop might not be chopped correctly, not just talking about beginning to end, but also chopped to the correct bpm (loop/mp) and looped correctly. Loops take a few tries to get playing smoothly. There is no automatic method to make it perfect because "all loops are not created equal" imo.

Then there is also the cause of the decay value. I use to set my step edit decay value for the loop a few ticks passed the actual ppqn loop value. If you set it TOO far into your next sequence your next trigger will not play.

By UNSYSTEMATIC Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:31 am
Keep in mind when you add swing to your notes, what your timing is set to. If timing is 1/16, then it will only swing the 16th notes or 1/8, swing 1/8 notes. The later and ealier settings will take that note you selected and move it all, not just the timed notes you have selected (like with swing).
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By trupro Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:01 pm
Pisch: yeah, I get it. U are correct. The MP won't pull a note earlier than 00:00:00 or beat one, bar one. If you want to do this in a loop sequence, you could put a note very, very late at the end of the sequence, thus appearing 'early' when compared to the first few notes.
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By The Jackal Fri May 26, 2023 5:21 pm
okay it's pretty simple: early/later obviously moves a note to an earlier position or later position than when it was originally programmed/tapped in

swing & amount are tied together: think of amount as the distance between notes that swing can nudge them. the higher the amount, the more your notes will be pushed forwards or backwards by swing. the lower the amount, the less increments in timing your notes will be pushed forwards or backwards by swing.

let's use arbitrary values: if amount was maxed out, swing could place notes anywhere between a distance of 1 and 10 (as determined by the swing percentage). if amount was half that, swing could place notes anywhere between 1 and 5. if amount was half and swing is low, it will place notes closer to 1 than 5. if amount was half and swing is high, it will place notes closer to 5 than 1.

amount is the "spread" over which your swing will take place, early/later is if swing pushes those notes early or late and distance is determined by said amount.

the more swing you want, the more amount value you need to dial in...but this can make some things sound like shit because it pushes the timing out of wack so much! small swing, small amount equals a tighter feel.

now this is what i'm not sure of and something i think you touched upon...if you set your swing & amount one way...can you get the same feel by changing them another way i.e. is a lot of swing with a little amount the same as a little swing applied across a huge amount? if i turn down my amount and turn up the swing...is that the same as turning up the amount all the way and using only a little swing?

tbh i don't know...i just **** with settings and different tracks until it sounds right lol