What Compressor Should I Get?

I'm mos definately gonna chech that RNC importing idea out. I'm just worried about anything going wrong with my RNC and then me having to pay out my ass to send the unit to RNC! Whereas Alesis have agents in South Africa, it's a peace of mind thang i guess... But i dont want to have to compromise on sound...

Speaking of which i was listening to The Roots Things Fall Apart album and the drums are killing me...DAMN!!! do you think it's possible to get beats like that out of an MPC?

So just in case this RNC thing dont work out for me, has anyone got anything to say about the ALESIS CLX440 or the Behringer FX units like the new BEHRINGER VIRTUALIZER PRO?

mpc3000 wrote:Compression 101

Compression raises the overall volume level, which in turns reduces the dynamics (hence in reference to modern pop engineering results looking `blocked` in a waveform display).

`Older` music was not quieter, it actually was more dynamic. That is, there were actually quieter passages in the songs. Yes this was intentional.

Compression, or rather over-compression, has been fadish for some time now. It'll die away much like the `12-bit fad` of some time ago.

Compression raises the noise floor. So if you have a little bit of hiss or hum before compression, you will have a lot aferwards.

Classic compression uses:
1) Correct singers that could not sing at a constant volume whne needed.
2) Correct guitar players (and other inst players) that could not play at a constant volume level when needed.
3) De-essing. Squashing the 'sss' that typically gets picked up by mics from singers. This requires a dedicated EQ and a compressor that has a sidechain input (rules out cheapo ones).
4) Tail squashing (not the real technical term). Sometimes you want to the initial hit of a sound to come through but quieten the tail of the sample. This occurs due to intentionally adding decay to give the compression a slow response. This allows the hit of the drum head to pass through unaffected but the compressor kicks in just after. Note that is not considered to make it louder or punchier (same techniqe can be used to remove reverb trails from samples).

Compression is not the end all cure all effect to fix bad samples. Since most people here have access to the original sampled material (i.e. recycle bin records), I suggest people are much better off sampling the original material again at a louder level. This averts several side effects.

No technical book or classroom instruction that I am aware of says to use compression to make drums or other sounds 'punchier' or louder.


I recommend the FMR. If you do get the dbx, gt at least the 1066. It costs a lot more than the cheapo models (that hardly fare any better than the Alesis), but unlike many others, the 1066 is analog.

I would in principle agree with beetjunkeeee in "dont need a compressor to make ur **** loud and punchy... ". I've heard many people's work that never knew what a compressor was and their music had the desired effect that people look for in `compressed` work since they effectively worked the original material instead of doing the old `record first, fix later` routine.

Did not know that.

"let me hear a track, i'll tell you if your sh!ts loud and punchy...

"you are obviously new to this if you dont know what a compressor is. thats a basic piece of gear everyone should have in their racks or in their reccording rig"

I don't use a compressor either, but I wouldn't say I'm new to this. I have compressors in my mixer that I don't care to learn to use. Why? Because recording is an art, just like making beats. It's one thing to know how to get your sound into pro-tools (or whatever you use) and put it to cd, it's another when you really understand what your doing, maybe even went to school for it, and have years of experience. There are schools dedicated to recording.. I have never seen one in hip-hop/pop/rock music production.. I've never heard anyone get a degree in MPC programming. 99% of folks that have this gear are wasting their time trying to do everything by themselves, and that's including myself. It's cool to get your music on cd, get the best results possible, and to play it for friends, sell a few cd's, etc, but it's completely different when the right person is mixing, eqing, tracking your beats. I went to the studio last week Sunday, and the engineer made a track I hated sound good. It was recorded in protools by a friend that knew how to really use protools, but he couldn't match the 'real' engineer that studied the art of recording and spent many hours/days/weeks/months/years of his life doing what he does best.
Basically (and this is to everyone), there's nothing wrong with learning as much as you can, but recording is somthing that really needs a lot of attention. One person trying to make beats, record, set up a label, get some acts together, and then may trying to rap/sing is putting a lot on their plate. You can hear it in most peoples tracks.. the music is so-so, the recordings are so-so.. etc.. if you focus on one thing, you can master that one thing. Take some of the pressures of life off by getting help from folks that really know what their doing. It makes a world of difference. Even your favorite producer/MC doesn't do it all.. just look at the credits in the cd cover.

. ..roxstar. ..
http://www.soundclick.com/creamofbeats

roxstar wrote: Even your favorite producer/MC doesn't do it all.. just look at the credits in the cd cover.

rza

Yeah man you have to know a little something something about engineering I have to mix down 17 trks for my mixed cd project and cutting the high frequencies aint easy at all except if you are a pro
after compression limiting and dithering you should peak at -06db
YOU MUST LEARN THIS IAM LEARNING NOW THIS MUSIC GAME AINT NO JOKE. Thanks for the advice Mesh

Originally posted by roxstar:
Even your favorite producer/MC doesn't do it all.. just look at the credits in the cd cover.


Uh I do it all and it's rough because you get a little rusty at other
things like performing eg: Rhyming

When you do the beats the technical aspect ,engineering and then
mix and master then perform and you want people to feel your vibe
so your beat better be bangin and your spit game better be Fly you
could ruin your whole carrer if you are not careful. So I suggest if
you are not RICH like me and you are struggling in da hood learn all
you can because you have to get it DONE.

"Even your favorite producer/MC doesn't do it all.. just look at the credits in the cd cover.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"rza"

Great point, that's why I think he's definately on my list of wack producers! The wu 'WAS' my favorite group when they first came out. 4th deciple, and the otehr producers couldn't touch RZA, but now, 4th deciple sounds much better than RZA.. their fanbase is almost gone now.. without Meth and Ghostface and maybe reakwon, there would be no WU, but if you take those same 3 Mc and let 4th deciple do all the production, I think they would be ok. They don't need RZA tho. Wu tang ain't fresh no more

I know I may get replies from the wu lovers on here, so lets go.

. ..roxstar. ..
http://www.soundclick.com/creamofbeats

"Uh I do it all and it's rough because you get a little rusty at other
things like performing eg: Rhyming

When you do the beats the technical aspect ,engineering and then
mix and master then perform and you want people to feel your vibe
so your beat better be bangin and your spit game better be Fly you
could ruin your whole carrer if you are not careful. So I suggest if
you are not RICH like me and you are struggling in da hood learn all
you can because you have to get it DONE."

(1) Now you did say "it's rough because you get a little rusty at other
things" ok..

(2) "you want people to feel your vibe" If you vibe is being rough because your a little rusty from doing other things, then cool. As an MC, your vibe is your message, your voice.. you! When you get on stage, you don't want to look tired from late night writing sessions & producing & recording & selling cd's out the trunk of your car. Yes, there will be days like this, but there's nothing wrong with help. Puffy is one of the richest cats in the world that we all look up to in the music biz.. you can't hate all you want, but after he came out, sudddenly, owning a label became a new hobby.. in fact, many puffy wannabees have jackets, wack cd's and other BS with 'rent-to-own records' logo's on em. My point is that even puffy got help.. so much, he just takes the old music, puts a beat on it, and raps!!

(3) "So I suggest if you are not RICH like me and you are struggling in da hood learn all you can because you have to get it DONE."
Well, I don't know what you mean when you say rich.. cuz it doesn't take money to have talent. If your rich, AND your struggling AND your in the hood then you got some serious problems.. making music shouldn't be a priority, unless your singing the blues. haha
Straight up tho.. I'm in the hood, I'm struggling.. I ain't broke, and I'm getting it done. I can do it all in my bedroom,, I can make a track and have it played in the club the same day, BUT it can sound better with help. You can get a nice sound from a roland vs-1880 and a cheap $50 mic.. I know, that's what I use, but so do the other million producers looking at the same goal as you.. We all want sucess, but you gotta have an edge. Can anyone name someone that became really sucessfull with no help? ..cuz I can't think of anyone that won a grammy and said, "I'd just like to thank.. uhh.. no one..... because we did everything ourselves." So yea, "you have to get it DONE," but get it done right.

. ..roxstar. ..
http://www.soundclick.com/creamofbeats

umm, i kinda forgot what we were argueing about.

but anyways, i dont rap. never have, never will. i dont wear a lot of hats, mainly 2. i produce and engineer. thats pretty much it aside from djing.

my point a few posts ago was that if you want to produce in this day in age, you need to know how to engineer. at least a little. you need to know what a compressor does, understand eqing, etc. i did not say you that you actually have to do it yourself, but if youre in the studio with an engineer and all you can say is "make it sound good," you gonna be there for awhile. whereas if you understand the concepts, you can tell them exactly what you want, how you want it done, etc.

get what im saying? sure everyone gets some help, i never said they didnt. i never said i wanted to do it all by myself, others have, but whatever.

and i was only pointing out rza as an example just to be argumentive. this board hasnt had a decent thread with differing opinions in a while. and youre right, rza aint all that and a dime sack anymore.

but for real, while they may not sound "radio friendly" mixwise, madlib and mfdoom are 2 of my favorite mcs/producers and they pretty much do it all themselves.

Why dont you help me then?

When you allow people to help you like I have done in the past they lose your music like someone has just done to me and swear to God on a
stack of bibles that you never handed them the cd's I felt like kicking
him in his head real hard because it's not just my music he's playing with it's my artist music too. Yeah some cat who offered me some studio time
yeah some music technology major and he didnt do anything but pull up the trks and press the record button.

I could do that in my own studio I have the same software and equipment
but I didnt ask for his help he offered it and LOST MY MUSIC.

I mean he came back and reburnt the trks but I also let him know nothing better not happen to my shit.

THATS WHY I DO IT MYSELF NOW so I hope you understand how I feel
right now

" Why dont you help me then" . ."THATS WHY I DO IT MYSELF NOW so I hope you understand how I feel
right now "

No need to be upset duke.. this is only a discussion..chill..
Aaight.., now that you feel better I've had some horrible sessions also, where I had to pay an engineer after he messed some tracks up.. do a quick mastering job with the click of the mouse kinda stuff.., take out the bass and made the music flat, it made me want to do it myself, I understand, been through it, I know. I'm will classify myself as the cheapest producer you may know.. I'm the first one from anyone that will tell you to keep your money in your pocket when it comes to gear, ESPECIALLY for paying for someones elses service (engineer, mastering, etc). Like Mesh said, you want to know a little something about everything, mixing, engineering, producing, being an MC, whatever, but your bad studio session(s) came from having the wrong person doing the work. If you had a good engineer, you would not have any bad studio stories. So why you (and me) had bad luckwith an engineer is COMPLETELY OUR FAULT. We should have known who we were paying to make our music be the best it can be. Those bad engineers may sound great engineering some pop music, so it not their fault. In this day and age, computers make it easy for anyone to learn to do just about anything. I have a friend that makes video's on his G4, and they look like something you watch on MTV, so there is probably someone in your neighborhood that's in his basement that would love to mix your tracks for a dirt cheap price..maybe for free.
I have a friend that does photography.. he gives me a real good price, and his pictures are A+ quality.. he's a professional, and charges me $35 for a 2 hour session.... I have a camera.. I could take my own, and save the $35
I have another friend that knows photoshop because he uses it for his job.. told me he's do a cover when I need one for $50 ... I have a computer with photoshop.. .. I could save the $50 and do it myself.
Another friend hooked me up with an engineer that owns a private studio.. $3200 neuman mics, Protools HD, $3000 compressors, and made an old track that sounded good sound GREAT.. charges $55 and hour.. took me less than 20 minutes to get it tracked! (just the beat, no vocals) I have a recorder, a mic, and compressors...I could save my 55 bux.., but here's the thing..
These people do what they do best, much better than I could do. When you find that right people, it's almost like magic.. things just come together. Dilla is one of my favorite producers, but if you ever hear some of his tracks with live instruments, and the right engineers, I'm sure even he can't believe what he produced. Dilla does a lot of his recordings at RJ rice studios in Southfield, but he knows how to record, but not like RJ. You just got to find the right help, but while your waiting, definately learn how to do what you can by yourself..I'm not saying to put a hold on your progress.. hell no.. I record my own music, but when it comes to really putting something out, I'm getting help.. flat out, because I want you to feel what I'm doing, and someone that 'really knows' how to engineer & master can do what you can't, better.

ps, and I'm loving this topic! So much better then the usual same-old 'MPC how to do' questions..

Funny, and all i wanted to know was what compressor i should get. A question which still hasn't been answered...but i've learnt some other stuff... it's all good.

Thanx RokStar

Maybe we had a slight misunderstanding and I may not have been
clear in my statement. How was I to know this cat was going to blind
side me like you said I have to move on the nightmare is over LOL.

You have compressors in all kinds of software and plugins to achieve
what you are trying to do in terms of your mix if it's hardware you're
after just do the research and find the best one for you I use software compressors myself.

My apologies guys for getting off the topic.

"Maybe we had a slight misunderstanding and I may not have been
clear in my statement. How was I to know this cat was going to blind
side me like you said I have to move on the nightmare is over LOL. "

It's all good.. the misunderstanding created a good discussion.. it's been a while since I anticipated a responce on a web site..we gotta do that more often.