Korg Kronos Keyboard Workstation: Just bought a new toy!

JUKE 179r wrote:

mp3 wrote:There is still to this day no other sampler that can do everything the ASR-10 can do.

So.... Won't ever be another ASR.

Such as?

One thing is newer workstations don't have the same old and highly coveted shitty converters. Shitty as in good.

Well we all know that ensoniqs all sound unique and magical.So thats that argument out the way.Im still leaning towards the roland v synth GT with its dual processors and variphrase sampling ect ect.Can pick them up second hand for not to much.$2000 Question-do we need big ugly hardware work (a lot) stations in this day and age?..........................anyway,i havent even checked this Korg out yet.ha

Oh shit I just watched the video, and that's the guy from Dream Theater... coool.

Question-do we need big ugly hardware work (a lot) stations in this day and age?

No way, they shouldn't even exist.

Pal wrote:One thing is newer workstations don't have the same old and highly coveted **** converters. **** as in good.

Jens @ Native Instruments wrote:Honestly we don't plan to add new emulations for now, because we think we really have the relevant sound characterics covered with the SP1200 and the MPC60.

Our DSP team has actually analyzed the ASR-10 very closely, too, but they found out that the sound character of this machine is mostly coming from its FX algorithms and not really from its sample engine or the audio I/O circuits. So it is not a good candidate for an emulation.

I didn't need NI to confirm what I already knew. I owned the ASR-10 it didn't sound any more magical than anything released today.

dryad-66 wrote:Well we all know that ensoniqs all sound unique and magical.So thats that argument out the way.Im still leaning towards the roland v synth GT with its dual processors and variphrase sampling ect ect.Can pick them up second hand for not to much.$2000 Question-do we need big ugly hardware work (a lot) stations in this day and age?..........................anyway,i havent even checked this Korg out yet.ha

I wouldn't dare speak for everyone. But no, we don't need a 15 year old workstation that does very little compared to what we have today. But yes, I do need a modern 61 key workstation and will always have one in my arsenal of toys. The Kronos is my next major purchase which will replace my Fantom G. If you haven't checked out the You Tube videos of Kronos, I would do so ASAP. You may possible answer your own questions....

Hmm.. this piece of gear looks very intresting.. I wonder how well it syncs with my computer?

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Pal wrote:One thing is newer workstations don't have the same old and highly coveted **** converters. **** as in good.

Jens @ Native Instruments wrote:Honestly we don't plan to add new emulations for now, because we think we really have the relevant sound characterics covered with the SP1200 and the MPC60.

Our DSP team has actually analyzed the ASR-10 very closely, too, but they found out that the sound character of this machine is mostly coming from its FX algorithms and not really from its sample engine or the audio I/O circuits. So it is not a good candidate for an emulation.

I didn't need NI to confirm what I already knew. I owned the ASR-10 it didn't sound any more magical than anything released today.

dryad-66 wrote:Well we all know that ensoniqs all sound unique and magical.So thats that argument out the way.Im still leaning towards the roland v synth GT with its dual processors and variphrase sampling ect ect.Can pick them up second hand for not to much.$2000 Question-do we need big ugly hardware work (a lot) stations in this day and age?..........................anyway,i havent even checked this Korg out yet.ha

I wouldn't dare speak for everyone. But no, we don't need a 15 year old workstation that does very little compared to what we have today. But yes, I do need a modern 61 key workstation and will always have one in my arsenal of toys. The Kronos is my next major purchase which will replace my Fantom G. If you haven't checked out the You Tube videos of Kronos, I would do so ASAP. You may possible answer your own questions....

Cool, I knew it had character, but didn't know what made it.

This workstation is technically more featured than older ones, but these modern workstations do very little compared to modern computers. They try to make these machines more powerful by adding features that computers already have and ultimately do better. Computers have superior software, libraries, hardware expansion, processing power, and are eventually what everything gets mixed on. These workstations come with good sounds, but how do you add more? Generally you can't, you have to buy a newer model. Computers are simply the more featured and economical choice.

And in a hip-hop context, primitive machines are preferable to these newer workstations since they have sonic qualities that haven't been duplicated (even though they can be).

Pal wrote:
Cool, I knew it had character, but didn't know what made it.

This workstation is technically more featured than older ones, but these modern workstations do very little compared to modern computers. They try to make these machines more powerful by adding features that computers already have and ultimately do better. Computers have superior software, libraries, hardware expansion, processing power, and are eventually what everything gets mixed on. These workstations come with good sounds, but how do you add more? Generally you can't, you have to buy a newer model. Computers are simply the more featured and economical choice.

And in a hip-hop context, primitive machines are preferable to these newer workstations since they have sonic qualities that haven't been duplicated (even though they can be). We don't need a 2011 workstation.

And even with the power of a computer...I will never..never forgo a real hardware workstation to simply use a computer for everything. If everything you wrote was true, then there wouldn't be a market for workstations.

I love hardware, but like the previous guy mentioned, software is the future. I think full hybrid midi solutions like "maschine" will be future way of hands-on beatmaking. I respect the guys who use hardware, but not the ones that complain about computers and eventually mix everything on them. Thats just stupid to me.

Jody Ejaz wrote:I love hardware, but like the previous guy mentioned, software is the future. I think full hybrid midi solutions like "maschine" will be future way of hands-on beatmaking. I respect the guys who use hardware, but not the ones that complain about computers and eventually mix everything on them. Thats just stupid to me.

I disagree, otherwise people wouldn't crave the "analogue" sound. It's a fact that neither can replace the other so they must both exist and have a place.

A more suitable solution will be for improved digital control over analogue signal paths.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

JUKE 179r wrote:

mp3 wrote:There is still to this day no other sampler that can do everything the ASR-10 can do.

So.... Won't ever be another ASR.

Such as?

Transwaves and all the crossfade algorithms.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Jens @ Native Instruments wrote:Honestly we don't plan to add new emulations for now, because we think we really have the relevant sound characterics covered with the SP1200 and the MPC60.

Our DSP team has actually analyzed the ASR-10 very closely, too, but they found out that the sound character of this machine is mostly coming from its FX algorithms and not really from its sample engine or the audio I/O circuits. So it is not a good candidate for an emulation.

I didn't need NI to confirm what I already knew. I owned the ASR-10 it didn't sound any more magical than anything released today.

That just demonstrates they're taking an incomplete approach. (and that you either have wax buildup or you don't actually make music )

The problem is that they neglect so much by simply passing a test tone through the machine and reproducing that with an emulation algorithm. For example summing. In other words the difference between an SP-1200 simultaneously playing two or more samples and doing the same with their emulation. For another example, envelope rates. For another example, variable filters. For another example, pitch interpolation. For another example, noise and harmonic distortion. For another example, differences in synthesis parameters. For another example, MIDI response times.

Its simply not good enough to run an sample through and say it sounds identical. That's an inherently incomplete approach because there is so much more to the sound of these samplers than that.

On the other hand, their intent is not to recreate these samplers in software, its only to approximate them. In that sense they've achieved their objective. In other words, Maschine/Battery is to an SP-1200/MPC-60 what Pro-53 is to a Prophet 5. Bottom line is that for them to say there is no reason for them to include ASR emulation is probably a true statement, but it does not in any way invalidate the fact that the ASR-10 has a unique sound.

I can see what type of person KRONOS is marketed towards. One would be a songwriting keyboardist in a band, who uses the sounds for performances and wants to make rough drafts with the sequencer at home.

scoobylol wrote:

Jody Ejaz wrote:I love hardware, but like the previous guy mentioned, software is the future. I think full hybrid midi solutions like "maschine" will be future way of hands-on beatmaking. I respect the guys who use hardware, but not the ones that complain about computers and eventually mix everything on them. Thats just stupid to me.

I disagree, otherwise people wouldn't crave the "analogue" sound. It's a fact that neither can replace the other so they must both exist and have a place.

I think we all believe that. But yeah, "software is the future" is not so true. It's not a comparison of hardware-software or analog-digital. Music electronics manufacturers have been making analog and digital hardware with software, and hardware has been used to control PC music software. The "war" is between platforms - traditional hardware vs. personal computer, like PC vs console. PC's have grown up, rendering most of the traditional digital hardware obsolete unless they have a unique sound.

scoobylol wrote:A more suitable solution

This is the future. Higher integration with computers and hardware instruments. Trend seems to be taking place.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Pal wrote:One thing is newer workstations don't have the same old and highly coveted **** converters. **** as in good.

Jens @ Native Instruments wrote:
Our DSP team has actually analyzed the ASR-10 very closely, too, but they found out that the sound character of this machine is mostly coming from its FX algorithms and not really from its sample engine or the audio I/O circuits. So it is not a good candidate for an emulation.

I didn't need NI to confirm what I already knew. I owned the ASR-10 it didn't sound any more magical than anything released today.

Well mine sounds like dark vanilla with a squirt of Jamaican rum.And yes those transwaves and pitch algorhythms...........ooo dont get me started.Will check out this chronos tho.BTW i would not trust NI s marketing team over those intrepid inventors of strange unique <hardware> synthesis and sampling modes-(Old school) Ensoniq...even if they did fook up the asrx sequencer.Ha..peace

well if all hardware is going the way as Kronos.... im abandoning software... LOL
that KRONOS is making me horny.
Kronos will definitely be my next purchase...... UNLIMITED POLYPHONY