Thinking of adding some hardware to color up my sound

Wallace wrote:OP, don't go down this path. Just make your music, **** all the plug ins and miracle outboard boxes. It's all ****. Trust me, I went down there myself and wasted soo much time when I should have just been making music. I tried summing boxes, vintage all analog mixing desks, all manner of magic plugins. At the end of it all, I couldn't hear any difference. Just a lot of faffing around not actually making music.

I'm sorry, while you are right about the music making part (one can easily overlook that when focusing too much on gear), most of your post is just misinformation.

If you couldn't hear a difference, you used it wrong.

Go to a few well established mastering engineers and tell them what you wrote here into their faces. I'll pay 5 bucks for every picture of their facial reactions... they'll look similar to this:

@pull-over makes an excellent point. Half of production is in the mix and a good amount of the revered producers we all love are fortunate enough to have relationships with mix engineers to handle that for them. If some of you have ever been privy enough to hear unmixed beats and tracks from some of these big time cats, then you can all attest to this.

Figure out what it is you are missing and learn how to resolve that issue without resorting to purchasing another piece of gear. Otherwise you'll end up like some of these forum guys that got 10 thousand pieces of gear but make beats that sound all squashed and f*cked up.

So what do these mix engineers use? A behringer mixer? Or an SSL desk? And does it make a difference in sound, or can't they hear a difference? Do they use a dbx166 comp, or something else? Can they hear a difference?

The general consensus in this thread seems to be: Hardware is money thrown out of the window and doesn't make a difference in sound. That is certainly far from the truth and misinformation. No matter which way you turn it around, it's just that, misinformation and bollocks.

EDIT: A good example is a friend of mine who makes electronic music since 20 years. We sometimes do music sessions and usually he takes the stems home to further work on a track. He then uses some plugins, some hardware, etc to polish and finish the track... you would not believe how it is like day and night. A good engineer with good hardware (or plugins) will laugh about a statement like: "Hardware doesn't make a difference, it's just faffing around!".

@jibber every tool -- whether used "properly" or not will make a "difference" in sound. So your point is what exactly? The general consensus isn't misinformation at all. Now, to suggest that someone should explore other cost effective avenues to develop a sound before moving on to spend thousands on hardware (that will likely end up being an online thread showpiece at most) is the more sensible thing to do.

Let's be honest here -- a good portion of the posters on forums like this can be grouped into being hobbyist beatmakers and producers at most. The ones who are fortunate enough to do it at a professional level already have access to the tools or the people with the tools to take their sound to where they want it. Being talented at creating music does not equate to being a talented mix or mastering engineer, and vice versa.

Your "good example" is a opinion at most. Having a "friend" who has a preference to use software and hardware only attests to his ability to utilize the tools he has access to attain a desirable result. Not a finite fact that is carved in stone.

Also, don't forget one essential component in the equation: hearing. The hearing of those who have been doing it for 20 years and written, mixed/mastered/produced and listened to a vast amount of tunes is more "refined" than that of those who have been making music for a year. A newbie isn't on the same level with a seasoned pro.
Hence the statements like "All different plug-ins and outboard gear is a waste of money and they all sound the same". Well, they do sound the same to someone whose listening skills are those of a newbie.

Then, you also have to consider the listening environment. A lot of people don't have a decent listening environment or headphones, so once again, a song mixed by a pro with great tools may not sound better to someone than a two-pence mix done by a neighbour.

Ok, so another example...

A user of this forum, called Fanu, is a mix and mastering guy. He recently made blog post with detailed information about his mastering process. He listed a lot of plug-ins, etc that he uses. He also listed some hardware.

So according to this thread, he can achieve the same results with audacity, instead of using his plugins. On top of that, he can hear the same frequency spectrum with ipod ear plugs that he can hear with his Audeze headphones.

The thing that made me reply to this thread was this: "**** all the plug ins and miracle outboard boxes. It's all ****". Which i'm sorry to say it so directly, is utter bullshit and dangerous misinformation.

EDIT: See post above by Fanu. Just in time... lol.

PS: An example in monitors: Why does my friend come to my place to check all his mixes since i own PSI monitors? What is that difference that makes him hear stuff instantly, shows mixing errors instantly, that he can't hear on his Event 20/20? Can't be the hardware differences according to this thread... there is no difference, KRK rockits will do exactly the same job...

@jibber I certainly believe you have enough command of the English language to understand what the definition of an "example" is.

I've read Fanu's posts and all he did one response up from yours is expand on what I already said -- with things that should be obvious. And I've read his posts where he illustrates his experiences and what works for him. This in no way means that his way is the only way, as previous stated. As if it is sacrilege to mix in the box now? The talk was about outboard gear and plugins. Now while it is clear that you are a huge proponent for hardware -- which is fine as everyone is entitled to their own opinion and preference, it still does not equate it being the only standard to be followed.

Unfortunately you are now derailing the thread into another plug for the PSI monitors you recently purchased (which I believe you stated you received some sort of discount provided that volunteer to be an online cheerleader and let people come over and demo them) -- Your bias and relationship with them nullifies any point you were trying to make.

There is nothing abnormal about your "friend" coming over to monitor his mixes in your new monitors because he obviously does not have a set of his own. Many of us have played our mixes through different sources to hear how they sound.

Ok, replace PSI with K&H, barefoot, Pmc, Atc, whatever you want. I don't get a single cent if someone buys PSI speakers from my reccomendation. On top of that i don't have to write a single word about them anywhere, i just do that because i am impressed with them, no benefit, no contract. The deal consists of my phone number and address listed on their webpage for people looking for a place to listen to them. But i see where you might have an issue with my opinion, it's maybe more the fact that a hobby beat maker bought a 10k monitoring system, instead of my actual opinion that is tickling your nerves.

This is getting stupid really. Very stupid.

The whole thread is like saying there is no difference.

It's like saying a car is a car, no matter who made it, both drive the same.

It's like saying a cheap electric guitar for 200 bucks sounds the same as a 3k carvin or gibson guitar. And honestly, why do you care so much if buckethead or an amateur is playing the expensive guitar? The amateur might not be as good, but still appreciate the superior sound and playability. Is there greed and jealousy mixed in here?

And i never said it has to be hardware. I was clearly talking about ITB and plugins too.

I'm sorry if i offended you, i'll stay out of it.

PS: My friend has a set of monitors, did you read my post? He has Event 20/20.

i m not saying hardware is bad but before investing in 500 Rack it s more important to invest in skills a good listening environment and then starting with a nice preamp

I offered my opinion, my experience. Hardly bollocks or misinformation. No need to get upset. I found what works for me. The OP's situation reminded me of my own, so I chimed in. For me, less gear equals more music getting finished. I sold my Genelecs because I reached the same results with cheaper KRKs.

Don't quote me and tell me I'm talking bollocks. You don't know me, I don't know the OP, he can choose to interpret my posts as he sees fit.

Again, the sentence that made me reply is this one: "**** all the plug ins and miracle outboard boxes. It's all ****".

If you're going to post shit like that, i'm going to quote you all day long and mention how i think it's bollocks.

Same as i would do it if you posted : "2 + 2 = 5" in a math forum.

The hardware didn't work for you, booohooo. So let's go ant tell everybody it's snake oil. Good job.

How does my post equate to "2+2=5"? That's factually untrue, I don't think I lied in my post.

I get the science of audio engineering, I really do, I majored in nuclear physics so this subject is not beyond me. However, I would never claim to be anything close to an audio engineer.

It is my belief that there is a vast amount of superfluous technology out there that is being pushed by manufacturers as must have tools. If you don't have X you can't compete with other producers. If you want X sound you need this tool. Consumerism, capitalism, call it what you want. This philosophy has trickled down into forums everywhere.

Do you have a DAW? You can make a hit. Do you have an MPC? You can make a hit. You don't need all that other shit. Sure it can help in the right hands, but in my opinion, working with what you got, spending time with your instruments is far better than throwing money at expensive audio processing equipment. I speak from experience, my own mistakes. Expensive monitors, expensive interfaces, wasted money on plug ins I now don't use. YMMV, having said that, I have read similar opinions to mine out there. I'm not the only one that got swindled.

It's an opinion, that's all these forums are, a series of opinions.

Still no hits under my belt, but having a lot more fun working with a simple set up, worrying about the notes I play more than properties of the spectrum they produce.

Ok, so i'll make another example with a hardware piece i own risking hearing it's a shameless plug to promote my shit. I prefer to talk about stuff i own because talking from experience is better than theory.

So let's take the SPL transient designer for example. It has two knobs per channel, one for attack and one for sustain. You simply run the outputs from whatever through it and adjust attack and sustain to your liking. Since i own it, my drums sound significantly better. It doesn't hinder the workflow or creativity, it's simple as shit and works perfectly as intended with immediate audible results.
I demonstrated it to a forum member once, his immediate reaction was: "c'est trop bien!!!".

According to your post, it's bullshit and a "miracle box". Nobody should buy it.

There's a plugin version too btw, miracle software, bullshit.

You post misinformation. They are not miracle boxes. They just didn't work for you so you think it's wise to advise anybody who thinks about buying something like that to tell them it's a bad idea.

Since you brought math into this thread, quantify "better". I bet you can't. It's your opinion. It's not a lie, it's not misinformation. It's your opinion and it's different to mine.

Dude... Seriously?

Do you grasp the concept of attack and sustain? It's very simple. Go and read a few user reviews where they rave about how simple and well it works.

If you would talk about audio myths, like special power cables and stuff, you would make sense, because that's where the snake oil is.

However, now you just make yourself look incredibly stupid. You are seriously questioning the functionality of a transient designer???

Define better, ok, let's take a kick sound, you turn up the attack, it has more attack/punch and makes the kicks attack more pronounced, hits harder. When you bypass it, the kick sounds dull and weak in comparison like day and night (levels matched). Can you grasp that simple concept?

Seriously, not gonna reply anymore (even if its tempting).

Feels like talking to a bunch of town idiots in here. Sorry to resort to that low of a level, but the stupidity and ignorance is strong in this thread.

Seriously... Huge face palm.