Korg Kronos Keyboard Workstation: Just bought a new toy!

Coz wrote:I think you should 'foe list' each other, cause this stupid **** is killin' an otherwise decent thread.

Nah man, I'm still in it for finding out more about this Kronos workstation. I can guarantee you that I'd buy into it before Mr. Pu**y would.

But all jokes aside, I think it's got some things that might stir my interest. It's something new and I'd like to see what it's all about.

Unlike some that more than likely can't afford something that's cutting edge which ain't none of my business TBH, I'd like to continue discussion on this new board.

I think I'm ready for something different you know.

Plus you gotta love the forum clowns around here that lurk through the night. (excluding myself of course, 'cause I don't do this on a regular like somebody we all know)

Yeah, I've done a mental 180 degree turn on Kronos... I actually think it could slot in quite well with my current setup.

I've got a lot more questions than answers though. I especially want to find out how well integrated the sampler is and the sequencer features, along with how intuitive the machine is in use.

I wonder when they will release the price? Anything over £2000 may kill my interest unfortunately...

mr_debauch wrote:
no I know what you are saying... I was just being clear on what I meant by hardware exclusive features (you cant have a digital analog filter) know what I mean?

as for a good computer set up, I'm sure you have access to google. You will figure it out with some research.

and as for what workstations I am using.. currently not much due to lack of time, but I have been having fun with a 60 and an mv... but the thing is I record a lot of field recordings using things like a zoom h4 and what not.. most of the work I do is based on field recordings and odd sounds. I have sort of a system going with how I manage the sound database and what not.

You were being clear for what you want in a future workstation that nobody wants and no company will build. Todays hardware and software bring you "emulations" or "modeling" of analog synths, effects, and dynamics. Kronos has 9 synth engines some of which contain analog modeling.

From your earlier posts, it was obvious that you didn't own or use a keyboard workstation which I suspect is part of the reason why you don't understand why companies like Korg, Yamaha, Kurzweil and Roland produce such products. It was also obvious that you wouldn't post the computer, software, sound card, and keyboard controller that you are using that gives you exactly what Kronos will (not that its necessary). An MPC 60 and MV-8000/8800 does not come close either (not that they have to).

Anyway, I only created this thread to talk about Kronos because I was excited about what it does. I have been looking for the right workstation that compliments how I like to work. I have used the Fantom G for 3 years as it was the closest thing to what I want a sampling workstation to be. I was about to buy a Motif XF to replace my Fantom G until the Kronos was announced.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

mr_debauch wrote:
no I know what you are saying... I was just being clear on what I meant by hardware exclusive features (you cant have a digital analog filter) know what I mean?

as for a good computer set up, I'm sure you have access to google. You will figure it out with some research.

and as for what workstations I am using.. currently not much due to lack of time, but I have been having fun with a 60 and an mv... but the thing is I record a lot of field recordings using things like a zoom h4 and what not.. most of the work I do is based on field recordings and odd sounds. I have sort of a system going with how I manage the sound database and what not.

You were being clear for what you want in a future workstation that nobody wants and no company will build. Todays hardware and software bring you "emulations" or "modeling" of analog synths, effects, and dynamics. Kronos has 9 synth engines some of which contain analog modeling.

From your earlier posts, it was obvious that you didn't own or use a keyboard workstation which I suspect is part of the reason why you don't understand why companies like Korg, Yamaha, Kurzweil and Roland produce such products. It was also obvious that you wouldn't post the computer, software, sound card, and keyboard controller that you are using that gives you exactly what Kronos will (not that its necessary). An MPC 60 and MV-8000/8800 does not come close either (not that they have to).

Anyway, I only created this thread to talk about Kronos because I was excited about what it does. I have been looking for the right workstation that compliments how I like to work. I have used the Fantom G for 3 years as it was the closest thing to what I want a sampling workstation to be. I was about to buy a Motif XF to replace my Fantom G until the Kronos was announced.

ok alright buddy, you are such a pro and an expert... that is why you cant find a single piece of gear that works for you to make music...

you dont know what I own, what I have owned, what I used... I was mentioning what I lately have used because you begged to know why my needs aren't the same as yours. point is, some people dont need to be the first person on the block with the latest toy.



fact is askia... if you knew anything about latency you would understand that no matter what you are using it will have some. you use a real piano... there is latency from the time you touch the key till the time the hammer hits the string. The half a millisecond difference between all in one workstation A and computer OS B is so low that if you for some reason notice it and that is what is causing problems in workflow... you suck at playing... sometimes you cant blame the tool.


Now, who are you to tell me what tool I require? As I said, this is a tool I dont require to do the current things I am doing... and reason for that is because I already have the right tool for the job. Maybe you dont have the right tool for making music yet... but I do.

and as for todays emulation and modeling of classic systems, I know about that... I use digital reproductions of classic gear all the time. The 9 synth engines on the kronos and all the other specs are cool... never said they weren't.... but with 3k I would allocate it differently.

@ the OG post...


I would run that thing through my sp-303.

@mr_debauch
I think the 1 or 2 people here in this thread got it. You don't need Kronos and I plan to allocate $3000 for it to replace the Fantom G, which cost me $2500 several years ago. That part is not up for debate. But for you to write that I only want Kronos because it’s the latest toy or that I haven't found a single piece of gear that works for me is way off base. That is normally the argument some individuals make when they envy the fact that some folks can still afford expensive gear in this economy.

To explain this in simple terms, technology keeps evolving. Some of the technology makes things easier and some not so much. I want to upgrade my workstation not because it isn't the right tool (as you imply) but because newer workstations offer technology for me to accomplish things that are impossible on my current keyboard workstation (and you claim computers are still way ahead). As a musician that uses samples....why would I not want a workstation that I can turn on and immediately play my samples without loading or a workstation that gives me 60x as much wave memory as my current workstation. Yes, I also agree its cool.

You implied buying Kronos is a waste of money because it doesn’t offer anything you don’t already have. Based upon this statement, I simply asked you about your “right tools” and your replied an MPC and MV. So it is weird for you to say I don’t know what you use when you told me right here. And since I am very familiar with those two workstations, I am fully aware that your “right tools” do not offer you what Kronos will whether you need it or not. And I never wrote/implied that you require anything. So I have to assume that you meant something else. Not that I really care what you use, but when you make outlandish claims, you should back it up with some specifics.

What is fact is your description of latency adds zero credibility to whatever point you are trying to make. Workstation A, I am talking about is Kronos (or any leading workstation. As for “Computer OS B,” I am still waiting on specifics from you. And I will then address the differences in latency with specifics. But generally speaking, to achieve using a computer to what a workstation such as Kronos does and have negligible latency, you have to opt for more expensive components and go through the process of setting it up, installing software/drivers, adjust buffer settings, etc. None one can boast a computer workstation is more stable than a hardware workstation…and a good computer workstation is not necessarily cheaper. Again…more on this later once (if ever) you post the specs of your groundbreaking system that gives you everything that Kronos does.

Askia Shaheed wrote:@mr_debauch
I think the 1 or 2 people here in this thread got it. You don't need Kronos and I plan to allocate $3000 for it to replace the Fantom G, which cost me $2500 several years ago. That part is not up for debate. But for you to write that I only want Kronos because it’s the latest toy or that I haven't found a single piece of gear that works for me is way off base. That is normally the argument some individuals make when they envy the fact that some folks can still afford expensive gear in this economy.

To explain this in simple terms, technology keeps evolving. Some of the technology makes things easier and some not so much. I want to upgrade my workstation not because it isn't the right tool (as you imply) but because newer workstations offer technology for me to accomplish things that are impossible on my current keyboard workstation (and you claim computers are still way ahead). As a musician that uses samples....why would I not want a workstation that I can turn on and immediately play my samples without loading or a workstation that gives me 60x as much wave memory as my current workstation. Yes, I also agree its cool.

You implied buying Kronos is a waste of money because it doesn’t offer anything you don’t already have. Based upon this statement, I simply asked you about your “right tools” and your replied an MPC and MV. So it is weird for you to say I don’t know what you use when you told me right here. And since I am very familiar with those two workstations, I am fully aware that your “right tools” do not offer you what Kronos will whether you need it or not. And I never wrote/implied that you require anything. So I have to assume that you meant something else. Not that I really care what you use, but when you make outlandish claims, you should back it up with some specifics.

What is fact is your description of latency adds zero credibility to whatever point you are trying to make. Workstation A, I am talking about is Kronos (or any leading workstation. As for “Computer OS B,” I am still waiting on specifics from you. And I will then address the differences in latency with specifics. But generally speaking, to achieve using a computer to what a workstation such as Kronos does and have negligible latency, you have to opt for more expensive components and go through the process of setting it up, installing software/drivers, adjust buffer settings, etc. None one can boast a computer workstation is more stable than a hardware workstation…and a good computer workstation is not necessarily cheaper. Again…more on this later once (if ever) you post the specs of your groundbreaking system that gives you everything that Kronos does.

We need more details.. Please explain a bit more.

dude, dont worry about what I require to make my music... as I said, I already have what I need. As I said the kronos is cool, but not something I require to do my current projects.


Do you have a problem with me not requiring a kronos?


Just because you may have played around with various gear... does not mean you know how I do my thing or the needs of my projects.


Now what side of the line are you on? A spectator of a new piece of music gear or a salesman?




Listen dude, yay you can afford every piece of music gear in the world without ever needing to sell any of it. great... I cant that is why I have to make choices on what new piece of gear I feel like adding to my setup or even other non music related stuff. Everybody is different and have different priorities in not only life, but in music setups.

mr_debauch wrote:thats cool, except those things you mentioned shouldn't be the future.... because those things aren't the future.... they are the present. why wait for features like those when we already have them? well some of us dont. This future you just described sounds more like catching up because all it involves are computer components with higher specs and not a single thing exclusive to hardware...

the thing is, maybe these keyboards are the future for you... I hope things like this are the future too but we both know the casual market cant be ignored anymore. it sucks but you know how that **** works..

Citing your original post....

Actually, I don't have a problem with you not requiring Kronos. I said so several times since you seem to be missing the point. Why would I? But we are in a forum that has open communication right? My responses to you was just for the sake of the argument..when you implied computers are better workstations. You also said keyboard workstations are not the future nor shouldn't be the future although the companies that produce them keep dropping new models. There is a reason for this that you don't understand. This is very odd since you admit that you actually use two hardware workstations.

From my personal experience, a computer can not duplicate what I get when using an MPC or keyboard workstation. Computers and software are just not as stable as a dedicated hardware unit which is also a computer. YOU made the claim that computers are better even though you use hardware workstations. I simply said write the specifics about your super computer. I am fully aware you can't and won't do so as it may shed even more light that your comments are way off base.

Again, this is not a personal attack on you...I really don't care what you use...but I am asking for you to back up your talk and give some specifics. Hell...I might actually learn something from you and use my $3000 for a computer workstation or whatever you deem is the future.

Jahrome,

Who cares??? STFU already...

Its a damn keyboard. And if its the successor to the OASYS, then guess what? Its a intel based linux computer too...

Back on topic...the NeXt Generation Music Production Workstation....the Kronos...

Richard Formidoni
Technology Product Manager
Korg USA,Inc.

Wrote about EP-1 Sound Engine:
EP-1 does in fact start with a sample library, but it goes deeper than traditional multisample playback. MDS (Multi-Dimensional Synthesis) lets us separate a sample into different elements- in this case, the pitched content, the hammer sound, and key release noises. We assemble these elements together in a way that gives us precise control over how the sound moves through time.

The practical upsides of MDS are:
1. There's no velocity-switching, so it reacts dynamically throughout the entire velocity range, just like the real instrument naturally would.
2. You have control over physical properties of the instrument, like hammer width and attack brightness.
3. We can control time-based elements like decay and release without having to introduce more processing.

So... Is it modeling? I suppose this depends on your definition of the word, but since it goes so much deeper into the behavior of the instrument than a traditional sample-playback engine would, the word "modeling" should be appropriate.

I like the streamlined interface.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

mr_debauch wrote: This is very odd since you admit that you actually use two hardware workstations.

.

why would it be odd that I admit using at least two hardware workstations?

todays DAWs are WAY by a million miles more powerful then any of todays computer based "hardware" workstations. you want to argue with that?

you want to bring up latency, yet the kronos is also a computer... then you want to argue who has more money. who cares? the kronos from what I know does NOT have the potential specs of a well built PC, and it doesn't have as many features as a current DAW. end of discussion.

It's not the hardware part that stands out about this board, it's stuff you can do that you can't do with any of the current crop of boards out now.

Like dude said in the video, "it's going to change the game".

If you play keys, then watch the vid and you'll see what this thing is all about.

If you don't, still feel free to leave any positive or non-positive/misunderstood comments.

But many of us around here would appreciate it if the jerk/weasel a$$ comments get kept to themselves.

That's how we learn.

Askia Shaheed wrote:Back on topic...the NeXt Generation Music Production Workstation....the Kronos...

Richard Formidoni
Technology Product Manager
Korg USA,Inc.

Wrote about EP-1 Sound Engine:
EP-1 does in fact start with a sample library, but it goes deeper than traditional multisample playback. MDS (Multi-Dimensional Synthesis) lets us separate a sample into different elements- in this case, the pitched content, the hammer sound, and key release noises. We assemble these elements together in a way that gives us precise control over how the sound moves through time.

The practical upsides of MDS are:
1. There's no velocity-switching, so it reacts dynamically throughout the entire velocity range, just like the real instrument naturally would.
2. You have control over physical properties of the instrument, like hammer width and attack brightness.
3. We can control time-based elements like decay and release without having to introduce more processing.

So... Is it modeling? I suppose this depends on your definition of the word, but since it goes so much deeper into the behavior of the instrument than a traditional sample-playback engine would, the word "modeling" should be appropriate.

Okay so, harmonic resynthesis? Cool. Not new, and certainly not game changing, but cool...

Harmonic resynthesis is also found in Roland's ARX SuperNatural technology. Roland's implementation of harmonic resynthesis, by the way, first appeared on the 27 year old MKS-20 ( http://emusician.com/futuretech/goes_around/ ). Then you have Camel Audio Cameleon 5000, released in 2004.

the first step in creating a SuperNatural program is separating the various elements of the target sound—for example, the string and bow of a violin as well as the frequency, time, and phase components. These elements are then utilized to reconstruct the sound using an additive technique with complex waveforms from the original sound, along with modeled components and wave-table synthesis.

Cameleon breaks sounds down into both a harmonic and noise component, for much higher quality and greater flexibility.

Once you've imported a sound you can edit it in ways which would be impossible with a conventional sampler. You have independent control over each of the harmonics, so you can (for example) boost all the odd harmonics - or even draw your own harmonic spectra!

Not that I don't welcome Korg's implementation of harmonic resynthesis but at some point you have to realize that almost everything on the market is basically an incremental improvement on what came before. Technology rarely gets shatted out, it gets developed and refined over successive product release cycles by competing manufacturers.

So you guys can have your 'game changer'. Interesting development? Sure? Drool worthy? Sure. Some new thing that never existed before? Hell no.

But then again, some are just more susceptible to marketing hype than others...

What would be great is if you could apply those resynthesis techniques to your own samples. Oh wait, you already can... Its called Roland VP-9000 and V-Synth, Camel Audio Alchemy, Celemony Melodyne, and Redmatica Keymap Pro.

Seems the game was changed quite some time ago...