Maschine...

emptysea wrote:
Oh, and I've been playing live with both Guitar Rig and Traktor for a long time and never had problems with either program.

good for you....Tracktor users are making the switch to SSL by the dozen

If you have an Mpc why would you need another Mpc style controller? Just buy Motu BPM and control it with your Mpc....done deal. I haven't done a comparison yet but it would be really interesting to see which software does more. Personally when I saw the features of BPM I was sold. One of the features I really like in BPM is that I can sample any track straight from my DAW into BPM and slice it up right to the pads. Another feature that sold me is that BPM comes with 15 Gigs of sounds compared to Maschine's 5 gigs.The workflow in BPM is crazy fast also. I'm not gonna say that Maschine doesn't look dope but if you are considering buying Maschine I would take a good look at BPM as well. It seems as though BPM and Maschine are competing for the same customer base even though Maschine cost more,.... Maschine lists for $599.99 USD and BPM at $279.99 USD......that's a difference of $320.00.......so basically you pay $320.00 for Maschine's controller.

Upright wrote:If you have an Mpc why would you need another Mpc style controller? Just buy Motu BPM and control it with your Mpc....done deal. I haven't done a comparison yet but it would be really interesting to see which software does more. Personally when I saw the features of BPM I was sold. One of the features I really like in BPM is that I can sample any track straight from my DAW into BPM and slice it up right to the pads. Another feature that sold me is that BPM comes with 15 Gigs of sounds compared to Maschine's 5 gigs.The workflow in BPM is crazy fast also. I'm not gonna say that Maschine doesn't look dope but if you are considering buying Maschine I would take a good look at BPM as well. It seems as though BPM and Maschine are competing for the same customer base even though Maschine cost more,.... Maschine lists for $599.99 USD and BPM at $279.99 USD......that's a difference of $320.00.......so basically you pay $320.00 for Maschine's controller.

big deal, it comes with 15 gigs of sounds... i say find your own sounds so you dont sound like that guy who clearly uses bpm or clearly uses maschine. I am not sold on "ooh it comes with all the sounds to make music" .....

mr_debauch wrote: big deal, it comes with 15 gigs of sounds... i say find your own sounds so you dont sound like that guy who clearly uses bpm or clearly uses maschine. I am not sold on "ooh it comes with all the sounds to make music" .....

That works too,....but what about tweaking sounds making them your own? There are more than plenty of ways to tweak in BPM. Plus if you're gonna compare these two products you have to look at the total package which does include the sound libraries.

Upright wrote:

mr_debauch wrote: big deal, it comes with 15 gigs of sounds... i say find your own sounds so you dont sound like that guy who clearly uses bpm or clearly uses maschine. I am not sold on "ooh it comes with all the sounds to make music" .....

That works too,....but what about tweaking sounds making them your own? There are more than plenty of ways to tweak in BPM.

yeah of course... or finding your own sounds and tweaking those works also.


I mean some stuff is great to have like 808's incase you are making a song of that style... but everyone has all those already so including them with bpm would be not that useful. I mean I think that everyone using the same kits of sounds is kind of a musical sausage fest or so to speak.

Upright wrote:If you have an Mpc why would you need another Mpc style controller? Just buy Motu BPM and control it with your Mpc....done deal.

I keep saying this but it's not just "another MPC style controller." It's either really disingenuous or just ignorant to call it that. Motu BPM + MPC (or a midi pad controller) can never achieve the workflow of Maschine. One of the major point of Maschine is that it works just like hardware, allowing for more efficient and instrument-like workflow compared to clicking around with a mouse. Compared to a software setup, Maschine is like having a MPC that has the power and flexibility of software. People have been syncing their MPCs with software for years and wishing for better integration between the two worlds. Maschine is a logical extension to that concept.

You have to look at it a different way. Maschine is more like having a MPC without the limitations of MPC that can be loaded as a plugin in any DAW. Not to mention all the other features that BPM can't even dream of having.

Upright wrote:I haven't done a comparison yet but it would be really interesting to see which software does more. Personally when I saw the features of BPM I was sold. One of the features I really like in BPM is that I can sample any track straight from my DAW into BPM and slice it up right to the pads.

Maschine has this feature built in, without having to touch a mouse/trackpad or having to look at a computer screen. As for comparison, there is no comparison. Can you use BPM as a control surface to control other software DAW? No, because BPM is just software. Can you navigate and control Ableton Live's session view clip matrix? No, because BPM is just software. Does BPM have a tactile hardware step sequencer? No. Can you still do that if you combine MPC or a midi controller with BPM? Nope.

Upright wrote:Another feature that sold me is that BPM comes with 15 Gigs of sounds compared to Maschine's 5 gigs.

So that extra 10 Gigs of sound will let you make better music, right? Seriously, I don't care about prepackaged sounds at all. I mean, if it has some decent, useful rompler sounds then it's cool whatever but I would rather have Maschine without any sounds and load my own sounds into it.

Upright wrote:The workflow in BPM is crazy fast also.

Really? Can you work with it without ever looking at a computer screen? I personally find having to click around menus with a mouse and staring at computer monitors very uninspiring and disruptive to the creative process. If you've worked with MPCs, you know how fast you can work with it, and how it just flows. That's why Maschine would appeal to MPC users who crave the power and flexibility of software but want it all to work like a hardware instrument.

mr_debauch wrote:

I mean some stuff is great to have like 808's incase you are making a song of that style... but everyone has all those already so including them with bpm would be not that useful. I mean I think that everyone using the same kits of sounds is kind of a musical sausage fest or so to speak.

I definite hear where you are coming from. Ultimately I'm just saying that if someone is considering Maschine they should look at BPM as well, weigh out the differences and then make the decision. I looked at the Maschine's videos and to be honest it didn't really impress me, it has a few cool features but on the other hand BPM's features and workflow are very impressive.

emptysea wrote:I keep saying this but it's not just "another MPC style controller." It's either really disingenuous or just ignorant to call it that. Motu BPM + MPC (or a midi pad controller) can never achieve the workflow of Maschine. One of the major point of Maschine is that it works just like hardware, allowing for more efficient and instrument-like workflow compared to clicking around with a mouse. Compared to a software setup, Maschine is like having a MPC that has the power and flexibility of software. People have been syncing their MPCs with software for years and wishing for better integration between the two worlds. Maschine is a logical extension to that concept.

You have to look at it a different way. Maschine is more like having a MPC without the limitations of MPC that can be loaded as a plugin in any DAW. Not to mention all the other features that BPM can't even dream of having.

Point taken. I will say that the workflow compared to using a Mpc really doesn't seem that much faster. The fact that you can use it as a plug-in is cool but BPM does this as well. Really, I'm just not convinced that Maschine does more than BPM(software to software) the controller is cool but the whole package seems a bit pricey for what it is and does.......Honestly is there anything that Maschine does that you cannot do with an Mpc that makes it worth $600?.....I don't see it. I don't notice anything significant that Maschine does that I cannot do in my 2500. Now for someone that doesn't own an Mpc, maybe......but that is about 1% of the people on these forums......again the controller is cool but for $600 I don't think so.

I have a solution to all of this...


get BPM, get maschine, and keep your mpc. That way you can use each one for their benefits.





and all that "get the power of software in a piece of hardware" stuff is BS. It is more like: "getting all the power of PC computer specs in an mpc style piece of hardware".



anyhow, I dont believe for a second that there wont be a moment when you will need to look at the computer screen... or else there wouldn't even be anything to look at on the screen. Some complex things require a screen.

mr_debauch wrote:I have a solution to all of this...


get BPM, get maschine, and keep your mpc. That way you can use each one for their benefits.

This sounds like the best idea yet!!!

I watched all of the vids (good job BTW) and I have to say it looks very usable BUT everything look usable when you are just bullshittin around with a track here and a synth or piano patch there. But to create a full production scale song within this domain acompanied with all the FX of reverb, compression, flange, echo. EQ, ect on a multitrack layout of 16 or more will put a heavy drain on any CPU in todays market. And this is were latenecy comes into play because you are taking up so much of the computers resources by haveing it play the parts of your Rack moduels, MPC, effects units, and track recorder. Having a computer as a track recorder by its self can prove to be a daunting task in its self let alone throwing all of the other task into the gamble. However the navigational speed in which I say the operator utilizing it in was atractive but thats only judging it based on him just **** around and not initializing a full scale song from concept to finnish

mr_debauch wrote:anyhow, I dont believe for a second that there wont be a moment when you will need to look at the computer screen... or else there wouldn't even be anything to look at on the screen. Some complex things require a screen.

Whaddaya mean you don't believe it? Just watch the videos. Both the official NI videos or the youtube ones from the first post of this thread. They both mention that you can do everything without needing to look at a screen. And if you look at how they designed the hardware, you realize this is true. You get everything you need to see accessible in the two LCD screens on the hardware, even audio waveform for sample editing. You can literally close the lid on the laptop while you work with the whole thing.

The software on the computer screen shows you more information such as patterns, scenes, kits, groups...etc. should you need it, to be more helpful but nothing is there that will stop you from just using the controller. This really is one of the big things about Maschine. It really works like a self-contained hardware. I think the fact that the software itself resides on the computer thus having to be connected via usb to a computer is what's throwing people off as to what this really is.

Actually if YOU watch the four vids in the first post you made you'll see that there were a few times that the had to go to the mouse and main screen. Example the whole note nudge issue and once again I'm basing this on him just bullshittin around not in a full start to finnish production mode for an original song.

AWW_NAWW wrote:Actually if YOU watch the four vids in the first post you made you'll see that there were a few times that the had to go to the mouse and main screen. Example the whole note nudge issue and once again I'm basing this on him just **** around not in a full start to finnish production mode for an original song.

Actually if YOU read what I wrote you'll see that I said they MENTION that you don't even have to look at the computer screen, not that these videos are supposed to demonstrate "not looking at a computer screen."

What note nudge issue?

yeah and also... if you want to access stuff from your external hard drive you have no choice but to click the "disk" button on the screen since there is no dedicated button for that on the controller.


I am not complaining since I have no quarrel with computers or screens (I am here on the forums aren't I?) however it is a bit of an overstatement to say that you never have to look at the screen. Ok, so you have to look at the screen less then you would on many other controllers... but dont try to make us believe that it never is needed.


Also, I somehow dont believe this is the type of DAW to multitrack record and master music. but cubase can take VST pluggins so... maybe it doesn't need to.


I wish I personally knew other music producers and artists who make music using software so that way if they get this product I could see a full out production live. Unfortunately all my friends are musicians who play instruments and they dont use software to make music with the exception of protools for recording live shit. Hell, none of my friends have an mpc.. haha.