loading/backing up synth sounds on AN1x via an MPC

Hiya.
I'm struggling a bit here, and there's nothing in the manuals about this.
so, there's 2 types of (Yamaha) AN1x files, AN1x Edit (.AN1) files, from the computers synth edit program, and midi (.MID) files.
The .MID files need to be loaded into a track on a DAW sequencer, then 'play'ed to a usb-midi converter, and recieved via midi by the AN1x synth.
No problems so far, except i don't have a usb-midi converter. (eg midi sport)

What i want to know is if I can put .MID files onto the MPC's flash card (MPC2500) then load that into a track and play it using the MPC as a sequencer, to the synth in the same way, or is the MPC unable to cope with .MID files.
I would try it, but i don't want to mess the MPC up.
I don't know anything about midi files, so is it safe to try?

Many thanks in advance.

cheers

I would try it, but i don't want to mess the MPC up.

You are NOT going to break anything!!!! If anything, you will overwrite a patch in your AN1X, but your MPC is 100% safe.

There actually should be info about this in the manual. I've never done it, but I think you basically set the AN1x up to do a SYSEX dump, and then hit record on the mpc...make sure it's a long enough sequence to catch the data (again, I'm talking theoretically so you will ahve to experiement). Then, you should be able to set the AN1x up to Receive sysex, and play back the sequence from the MPC.

If you are somehow able to simply output a MIDI file from your AN1x via the software, you could try playing it from the MPC.

Point is, I've never done it, but you are not going to break anything, so start experimenting, check those manuals (it's in there), and please report back!

Brilliant, thanks.
I had got the sequence into the MPC from the computer, but then decided I needed to back up the synths current soundset before over writing it.
I went through the procedures of bulk dump, but the synth just sat there flashing for ages, and nothing happened.
'press record on the MPC'
of course, it seems obvious now. duh.
Thankyou, i'll give it a go.

hmmm. it's not playing ball unfortunately.
I recorded the bulk dump info from the synth to the MPC ok, then grabbed it onto my computer, but it comes out as a [.seq] not a [.MID]
then tryed to re-load it into the synth as a test, so it would overwrite itself with the same info (so i don't lose anything)
but the MPC just jams up after 1.2secs, and the synth comes up "device number error"

the only info in the synth manual is that "both devices should be set to the same number"
both devices? presumably the MPC and the synth.
does that mean the midi channel used?
I can't find anything in the MPC manual about 'device numbers'

and how to set up the midi channels?
I've tried sending MPC - synth on midi ch 2, with the synths receive on midi channel 2, and with transmit disabled
then the same with synth transmit on 3, MPC receive on 3 (soft through off), with 'device number' on 2 & 3
then both the synth & MPC transmitting and recieving on 2

MPC just freezes each time, with both the [.seq] file (originally from the synth) and with a [.MID] file I tried.


Confuzzled.

what's the difference with a DAW sequencer? anything to do with MPC programs that could be messing it up, in that a sequence plays a program? nah, cos it's midi stuff, same as playing an external synth surely.


errrrr


Maybe i just need to get a usb-midi adapter.

Confuzzled.

I don't even think that does it justice...I'm having a very hard time following now.

I haven't used AN1XEdit in a while...is that what you are using?

Where is this 'seq' file coming from?

I'm not sure how the AN1Xedit exports patch info into files. Does it export SYSEX info into Midi files? If so, you can just load that up into the mpc, put the Synth on 'receive' mode, and hit play on the MPC.

As for a "SEQ" file...I can almost guarantee that is not going to work. Do MIDI in all cases.

You should look in the manuals under sysex dump/receive. If I get the chance I'll try to hook mine up and see what its doing.

But after your last post I'm very lost as to what it is your trying to do. Mainly when you say you get it into your computer then 'reload it into the synth'...how are you doing that without a usb-midi converter?
Also, I dont understand why the MPC is jamming up...it should just be playing a sequence as far as I know.

Yes they should be on the same channel.

I hope you keep working on this...I'm not an expert on MPC-AN1X relations but I do want to encourage you to keep trying and not worry about 'breaking' your MPC.

EDIT:
The last post in this thread might help? http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72308&hilit=sysex+dump+synth

yes it's that simple. it's kind of wierd/confusing the first time... because, the mpc doesn't know that it's recieving a bulk dump, or doing anything special. you just run the sequencer like if you're recording a jam session on the pads, or from your keyboard.

just make sure you set the mpc to recieve on the info on the correct channel. -your roland manual will tell you what channel it uses for bulk dumps.

also, make sure that the sequencer is actually recording before you hit the button on the roland. -also disable loop recording, or add the maximum amount of bars possible. if the dump is super huge, lower the tempo on the mpc if you have to.

the way i used to to was like this...

select the channel on the mpc to recieve on

select the maximum amount of bars for the sequence.

play/record, and let it go for one bar.

activate the bulk dump procedure on synth.

save the sequence.

if you want, you can cut off the unused measures at the end of the sequence.

it's been years since i've used an mpc2k... so i don't really remember exactly what i used to do, but those where the basic steps i took.

Thanks for the reply.
To clarity:

AN1x receives/exports files in 2 ways, i believe:
1/ AN1 files, using the AN1x edit program. - there's no way I can think of to make that work through the MPC, as 'AN1xedit' obviously isn't going to run on the MPC.

2/ midi files, which can be loaded into the AN1x using any (I think) DAW sequencer, and just played into the AN1x synth - bulk receive & all that.

The question was whether I can put .MID files into an MPC, then play them into the AN1x using the MPC rather than a DAW sequencer.


The problems start because being nervous about trashing all the sounds currently in the synth, I decided it would be better to try & do things the other way 1st, ie, get the sounds from the synth recorded into the MPC, where I can get them backed up onto the computer from.

That seemed to work ok, although (of course) the MPC recorded this as a sequence [.seq]

I then made a small change in the voice list on the synth (so i'd know if it had worked or not) then tried to re-load the same file back onto the synth via the MPC, which is where the MPC jammed up.

If it had worked, then I would have tried loading some other sounds I've got into the synth, but this is all too complicated for me, so I'm going to have to wait until I can afford midi-usb adapter, which isn't much, but i was hoping to get an all in one soundcard/usb/midi/coax/optical thing, which is a bit more. maybe 'll just get a midisport for now though.

I'll have a good read of your link now, & see if that helps.

Thanks.

[Edit]
ok, after reading that, maybe i'll have one more go.

aaaargh, it's painfully close to working.

Bulk dump from the synth to the MPC worked ok, by saving the sequence without the 'MPC specific events' it gets saved as a .MID file. i missed that before.
so now I've got all the synth info backed up & saved on the MPC as [.MID] and from there got it saved onto the computer. YAY!

then:
load the .MID file back onto a track of the MPC,
set midi send to ch 2,
synth recieve on midi ch 2

that's with the synth midi transmit off, and MPC's recieve off.

no good.

does the synth have to talk back to the MPC?

try again with the MPC transmitting on ch2 (synth recieve on 2)
and synth transmit on ch1 1 (MPC recieve on ch 1)

nope.


try again with them both send/receiving on the same channel?

nope.


hmmmmm.

Ignore me, i'm vastly over complicating things.
usb-midi interface ordered & on the way.

You might be over-complicating things, but the USB-MIDI adapter is just another complication to throw in the loop ;].
Still, it's fairly straight forward to use AN1X edit over midi with the synth...I've done it many times to back up my stuff.

Now back to the MPX....
If you got your midi dumped to the MPC congrats!

Now, you set your an1x up in SYSEX receive mode, and play back the sequence. I think maybe you missed that first part...

It has nothing to do with sync on either machine.

With the USB Interface you won't need to actually worry anymore about MID files, because AN1X editor can save things in it's own format.

But AN1X edit and MPC basically cannot talk to each other....still they both will allow you to do similar things in terms of backing up your AN1X.

hiya.
there's very little on receiving bulk dump in the manual.
just these 2 paragraphs:

DeviceNo (Device Number)
The Device Number parameter lets you set the MIDI
device number when performing bulk dump operations,
or when transmitting and receiving System Exclusive
messages. Both devices should be set to the same
channel number.
Settings: 1 ~ 16, all, off

Receive Bulk Dump
A Receive Bulk Dump operation lets you load data back into
the AN1x from an external MIDI device.
The type of data which can be received depends on the
current mode. For more information, see the MIDI data
format, in the separate Data List book.
Before initiating a Receive Bulk Dump operation, the Device
Number for both devices must be matched. (For more
information, see Device No, on the previous page


I wonder if i've been confusing something by setting the device number for the dump on the normal midi receive channel?

maybe I should try setting the MPC to send on, say, 16, and device number 16? keeping it separate from the normal MPC ---> AN1x midi channel?


the "For more information, see the MIDI data
format, in the separate Data List book."
bit doesn't help. just a long list of hex/binary conversion tables. now that's really confuzzling!!

TBH getting the usb midi adapter is definitely better, as I can do the whole AN1x edit thing then, too, and see in one window how my favorite sounds are put together.

Cripes, getting the computer wired up to everything else has taken months. you should have seen the palaver trying to get my mac to do Windows to get the AN1x edit program to work.

definitely not going 'soft' for a sequencer.

Well, glad you are into the dark and dirty of it now...at least you overcame your fear and started trying things.

Good luck with AN1XEdit via midi.