mpc & s900/950 routing question

I haven't been able to find an answer to this on other threads but I kind of know the answer already. Just looking to make sure.

If I don't have the 8 outs on my MPC, but I get a 900 or 950 for the combo and trigger and sequence the rack with the MPC, the sounds will all be on the rack, and they will go out the 8 outs into a mixing board. Then does that mean that I can't make a beat on the MPC without using the rack at all and still somehow get the sound to the mixing board? And if I run out of memory on the rack and I want another sound on the beat, I can't really sample it on the MPC because then I won't have a way to send it to a mixing board, or is there still some way?

And how would I go about saving beats if the sequence is on the MPC and the rack has the sounds, I'd save the sounds and the program on one floppy on the 900, and the sequence on another for the MPC? Cause the 950 reads HD disks but the 900 doesn't, so I can't use the same disk for both machines without formatting again.

Damn dude, got a lot of thoughts and questions... so it is hard to know what you actually want to do. Let me explain what I would do... and see if that makes sense.

For the S900/S950, you have a mix out and individual outs... so you could use the mix out but you cannot process sounds individually. What a lot of folks do is route the individual outs to a mixing board, then you get a per channel EQ, pan, volume fader, and often one or more send fx chains.

From there you can output the mixer output to the MPC for further sampling, chopping, and other manipulation. With monitor on, on the MPC, you can then play from the sampler and MPC and do all your sequencing on the MPC.

As for disks, the S950 can read the 720kb low density disks, but yeah, the S900 cannot read the 1.44mb high density disks.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry if I didn't word my questions well. I already record everything in mono on the MPC so I was thinking that on the 900 I could do
output 1: hi hats
output 2: snares
output 3: kicks
output 4: all chops of the main sample
output 5: another sound FX like a horn or a vocal chop for example
output 6,7,8: whatever, specific to the beat

And have each individual out going to an individual in on a mixing board for eq and levels and such.
I also heard that it is possible to format HD disks on the 900 to work as DD, sometimes even without taping the little hole.

Scrawny wrote:Thanks for the reply. Sorry if I didn't word my questions well. I already record everything in mono on the MPC so I was thinking that on the 900 I could do
output 1: hi hats
output 2: snares
output 3: kicks
output 4: all chops of the main sample
output 5: another sound FX like a horn or a vocal chop for example
output 6,7,8: whatever, specific to the beat

And have each individual out going to an individual in on a mixing board for eq and levels and such.
I also heard that it is possible to format HD disks on the 900 to work as DD, sometimes even without taping the little hole.

With a mixer you can route your outputs like that for sure. You could also get a mixer that can handle over 8 channels and also route your MPC outs to it to do the same/similar types of workflow.

Yeah, you can use HD disks in a DD system, but you really should tape over the hole... it makes identifying what the heck you are actually using the disk for easier, and also is not relying on a mechanical failure to identify the disk properly.

Thanks for clearing everything up.

I’ve had both the S900 and the S950. If you can get your hands on a 950 then that would save you the hassle dealing with the hd/dd floppies, plus the S900’s memory isn’t upgradable. ‘Love your limitations and less is more’ blabla doesn’t apply to everything. It’s bliss sometimes not to have to work that hard squeezing your whole beat into 750kb of ram.

Also, get a mixing board with 12 channels or more. Cause you’ll need that mix out and the MPC’s out for the metronome. You can plug and unplug stuff to free up space on your mixing board when needed, but that stuff can really mess up your workflow. Keep in mind that working this way is more mixing board focused than having everything inside the MPC. That’s also the reason why I recommend you to get a decent mixer. When you really work that mixing board you don’t want everything to be cramped up, and faders over volume knobs is also a huge winner here.

Menco wrote:I’ve had both the S900 and the S950. If you can get your hands on a 950 then that would save you the hassle dealing with the hd/dd floppies, plus the S900’s memory isn’t upgradable. ‘Love your limitations and less is more’ blabla doesn’t apply to everything. It’s bliss sometimes not to have to work that hard squeezing your whole beat into 750kb of ram

Yeah I feel you on that but really the idea came about when I was thinking of getting the 8 outs for my MPC. I looked up the prices and realized that for about 150 euro more I can get an s900. The cheapest 950 is about another 250-300 euro more than the 900 and I really would be looking between the couch cushions already to get the money for the 900. Besides, I think the majority of my beats fit in about half a disk already. Currently I don't sample the main sample in 78 rpm because I don't like the way it loses all the bass and that's important to me because I filter a lot of my beats for the verse, but I can do that too if I need to at some point. S900 has adjustable sampling rate which will help conserve sample time too, right? And if worse comes to worse, I can always just sample whatever sounds won't fit in the rack into the MPC. I'm not worried about the space. Just a little unsure about having to save the sounds and program on one disk and the sequence on another.

Thanks for the info on mixing boards. Greatly appreciated.

Honestly, if you just want multiple outs, you're probably better off upgrading your MPC. If you want to add the S900/S950 into your workflow you're adding a lot more time loading stuff... it'll take longer to sample/chop as well... plus as you pointed out... now you'll be saving projects in two places... Floppy which is prone to failure... and the MPC...

Not trying to convince you otherwise... but just trying to point out some parts of the workflow that are less than desirable. If you're cool with it, and think the S900/S950 will add something to you... go for it. Just consider how frustrated you'll be if you floppy borks up... or you cannot for the life of you remember which floppy goes with which MPC project you've saved.

While you are waiting for loading/saving/time stretching... are you the type to use that time to think about your beats... jot notes down... and use the time productively... or will it get you distracted from what you wanted to be doing in the first place?

NearTao wrote:Honestly, if you just want multiple outs, you're probably better off upgrading your MPC.

Agree 100%! Plus it will be cheaper in the long run. I had to replace the diskdrive and the screen, cost me as much as an output expansion. And the S950 isn’t all that. You have to midi it up with the MP, the mixing board, dying parts and outdated features. Don’t get me wrong, I still regret I ever sold mine. But only get it if you really, really want that S950 workflow/ sound and vibe. Plus there are also other ways getting your sounds inside your computer with only two outs.

I'm not using a computer. I am still learning about the workflow. I wouldn't make a decision to buy one or not yet but it's not just the outs I want.

Scrawny wrote:I'm not using a computer. I am still learning about the workflow. I wouldn't make a decision to buy one or not yet but it's not just the outs I want.

Computer or any other recording device.

So if you really want to go that S900/ S950 route it’s gonna cost ya, but definitely rewarding if that’s your thing.

Anyway, with that, NearTao’s tips and a mixing board you should be good

Menco wrote:

Scrawny wrote:I'm not using a computer. I am still learning about the workflow. I wouldn't make a decision to buy one or not yet but it's not just the outs I want.

Computer or any other recording device.

Well a 4 track doesn't really appeal. MPC > mixing board > tape deck seems to make the most sense to me. I was thinking it's important to learn how to properly mix outside of the mixer screen on the MPC as well. ( )
The main thing for me to think about is if I'm ready to give up the workflow of my MPC alone. I always agreed with that "pick a sampler and stick to it" mentality cause how else can you master the machine?
And regarding the cost, records and whatever music stuff I need (blank tapes, cables, labels, sleeves, etc) are the only things I spend money on so all will be alright.
Thanks for the help.

Menco wrote:I’ve had both the S900 and the S950.

Do you know where I can find something like a sample time chart? I looked through forums and pages that list the specs of the machine but I couldn't find anything beyond "It featured a maximum of 11.75 seconds of sample time at its highest sampling rate of 40kHz.". I'm trying to figure out how much sample time I could get if I sampled at between 10000 to 13000 khz(?) and at 45 and 78. An approximation would be fine.

Scrawny wrote:

Menco wrote:I’ve had both the S900 and the S950.

Do you know where I can find something like a sample time chart? I looked through forums and pages that list the specs of the machine but I couldn't find anything beyond "It featured a maximum of 11.75 seconds of sample time at its highest sampling rate of 40kHz.". I'm trying to figure out how much sample time I could get if I sampled at between 10000 to 13000 khz(?) and at 45 and 78. An approximation would be fine.

Never saw something like that but I guess you know that if you use half the samplerate you'll double the samplingtime. Keep in mind: on the s900/s950 you don't set the samplerate but the audio bandwidth.
The audio bandwidth is (in simple terms. more info at the end) the max frequency that you can sample. The max audio bandwidth of the 950 is 19200 Hz. On the 900 it's 16000 Hz (AFAIR).

Ok to calculate divide the max bandwidth by the prefered bandwidth and multipy this with with the max sec (at full bandwidth)

so for 10000 Hz

16000 / 10000 = 1,6
1,6 x 11,75 = 18,8 seconds

16000 / 13000 = 1,23
1,23 x 11,75 = 14,45 seconds

now for the turntable: double speed = half the time so 10 seconds at 33 RPM = 5 seconds at 66 RPM (of course you can calculate with the correct 33 1/3 RPM)

at 45 RPM
33 / 45 = 0,7333
0,7333 x 10 seconds = 7,33 seconds

at 78 RPM
33 / 78 = 0,423
0,423 x 10 second = 4,23 seconds


to complete lets get the max (original RPM) time at 10000 Hz bandwidth

we know max sec at 10000 Hz is 18,8 and the 33RPM to 78RPM ratio is 0,432

18,8 / 0,432 = 43,52 seconds

So you'll be able to squash 43,5 seconds into the 900 if you sample at 10000 Hz and 78 RPM

Not recommended for clean Hihats

peace


Almost forgot about the bandwidth thing:
s950 manual = ' 12bit sampling at 48kHz'
s950 audio bandwidth setting = 19200 Hz
It should be 24000 Hz
In fact the 19200 setting is not even correct cause a sampled white noise rolloff a bit earlier ca 18000 Hz

Like I always say: Numbers don't count if you're looking for a dirty sound. Use your ear.

peterpiper wrote:Never saw something like that but I guess you know that if you use half the samplerate you'll double the samplingtime. Keep in mind: on the s900/s950 you don't set the samplerate but the audio bandwidth.
The audio bandwidth is (in simple terms. more info at the end) the max frequency that you can sample. The max audio bandwidth of the 950 is 19200 Hz. On the 900 it's 16000 Hz (AFAIR).

Ok to calculate divide the max bandwidth by the prefered bandwidth and multipy this with with the max sec (at full bandwidth)

so for 10000 Hz

16000 / 10000 = 1,6
1,6 x 11,75 = 18,8 seconds

16000 / 13000 = 1,23
1,23 x 11,75 = 14,45 seconds

now for the turntable: double speed = half the time so 10 seconds at 33 RPM = 5 seconds at 66 RPM (of course you can calculate with the correct 33 1/3 RPM)

at 45 RPM
33 / 45 = 0,7333
0,7333 x 10 seconds = 7,33 seconds

at 78 RPM
33 / 78 = 0,423
0,423 x 10 second = 4,23 seconds


to complete lets get the max (original RPM) time at 10000 Hz bandwidth

we know max sec at 10000 Hz is 18,8 and the 33RPM to 78RPM ratio is 0,432

18,8 / 0,432 = 43,52 seconds

So you'll be able to squash 43,5 seconds into the 900 if you sample at 10000 Hz and 78 RPM

Not recommended for clean Hihats

peace


Almost forgot about the bandwidth thing:
s950 manual = ' 12bit sampling at 48kHz'
s950 audio bandwidth setting = 19200 Hz
It should be 24000 Hz
In fact the 19200 setting is not even correct cause a sampled white noise rolloff a bit earlier ca 18000 Hz

Like I always say: Numbers don't count if you're looking for a dirty sound. Use your ear.

Wow man. Professor hip-hop over here.

So a combination of 78 rpm and a lower bandwidth would absolutely total the high frequencies huh? Going to need to do a lot of experimenting...

Thank you.