motif, triton, fantom?

so we might be making a new room at my work designed for composition. i work at a post production facility, so we are doing jingles and original scores. anyways, one of the pieces of gear we will need is a keyboard that will be our main controller. it must be 88 key with weighted keys as my boss is a ripping keys player. he could easily get away with using a piano- like controller and never use any internal sounds as that is what he is using in his current setup, but seeing how this will be the room that i work in the majority of the time i am trying to weasel in a controller with some sounds in it so i can use it for my ish.

so, who uses one of these, what do you like/dislike about them, what do you know about some of the other ones, yada yada yada.

please provide all your opinions. i only have a little experience with the triton, but i have heard good things about the motif. i will hopefully be having an mpc up in the joint too, but all this is hypothetical right now. just trying to get as much info as possible beore i pitch my ceo the idea.

o yeah, we will be using giga studio and lots of softsynths as well via this controller, but what kind of sound banks are coming with these guys?(the keyboards in question, not giga and soft synths)

thanks in advance!

I own a Karma (Korg) and my take on this whole keyboard craze is if you don't know how to play the thing it doesn't matter anyways. I'm not saying be Stevie Wonder or somebody like that, but take the time out to learn the notes, it will only add to your creativity.

i know how to play a keyboard, what i want to know is the specifics of each individual model, pros/cons, likes/dislikes, etc. personal experience type ish.

do you like the karma?

i plan on testing all these out personally, i would like to be able to go in to the testing process well armed with knowledge.

I just upgraded from the Motif to the Motif ES, I also considered the Triton and the Fantom-S but chose to go with the ES for the sounds and sampling features. I use the Triton every now and again but I've never sat down and really dug in so I can't say much other then it seems to be easier to use then the Motif.

Anyway, here are the pros and cons of the Motif as I see it.

Pros:
The sounds are amazing!!!
1024 mb sampling memory!(they say 512 but it recognizes 1024)I know, I know, who needs this much sampling time? It's still cool to have though!
8 insert fx!
2 USB interfaces(1 for midi, 1 for storage) I really like this, the Motif acts as a controller and midi interface for Pro Tools and I have a 60 gig harddrive attached directly to the Motif for saving everything! You can also use a USB cd rom or zip drive, hell you can use those little USB memory sticks. You can also hook up a 4 port USB switch so your computer and Motif can share a drive!
Re-sampling and slice functions!!!(it's almost like having Recycle inside the Motif, almost.)
A remix function, this takes a loop, slices it up(a la recycle) and then rearranges it for you. I know, not very creative but comes in handy when you're short of ideas.
mLan!!!! In January Yamaha is releasing the mLan option for the ES which essentially turns the ES into a 16 channel audio interface!!!!

There's a hell of a lot more but I think you get the picture.

Cons:
Pretty steep learning curve!
File mangement on the Motif is a nightmare, especially if you're used to the MPC structure!!!
No sample audition feature!( what's really funny is you can audition sounds you want to save................ huh, WTF!!!)
No tap tempo feature!
I guess you've probably figured out that my main problem with this board is that it's not a MPC!
I've only had it for a week so it will be a minute before I figure out everthing I don't like about it.

As far as knowing how to play, "technically" I don't!!! But hell Dre barely learned how to play about a year ago, besides I feel like learning how to paly would fu** up the way I work. I pretty much just play by ear, if I need some crazy ish I bring in this kid I know who is sick with the keys.

I feel as though you can't really go wrong with the Motif or the Triton. Good luck with which ever one you choose.

Dre learned to play a year ago? Where did you read that? Someone must have posted a wild rumor. There was an interview with Dre in EQ magazine back in 2001. He was sitting in front of a few keyboards, including the relatively new Alesis Andromeda. He mentioned it and at least one other keyboard in the interview.

Being a gifted keyboardist isn't required to make music. You don't even have to know how to read music. Some patches require using only one finger to play them. So don't be afraid to play just because you didn't start in grade school.

The workstation comparisons have been done to death on various websites. Rather than post a few pages of technical specs again, here's all you need to know from my personal experience with these synths...

Fantom-S - easiest to use, great user interface and display, lowest cost, limited polyphony but very good sound, becoming the new Hip Hop standard

Motif ES -- best sound, most difficult to use, excellent set of controls, midrange price, lots of early user complaints, average use in Hip Hop

Triton -- excellent sound, average workstation learning curve, very good polyphony, old Hip Hop standard, might be replaced soon by a new line from Korg

thanks for the replys so far. i understand there are plenty of websites and other forums with answers to this question but i asked it here to get opinions from people who use the mpc a lot like i do. other keyboard players who dont use the mpc willl have different pros and cons in relation to someone who does use the mpc, nah mean?

so if any more replys could focus solely on their personal opinion and experiences on the topic and leave out anything to do with knowing how to play or other stuff, that'd be sweet.

thanks again for those responses so far.

if you got the money and its your first board i would go with the motif ES...some say it has a learning curve well i got the motif classic and theysaid that had one too but i didn see any problem with it because it was my first board and anything was gona be hard but i learn it fast.

i just recently purchase (2weeks ago) the Motif and i am extremly satisfied with the sounds and sound editing features available.

in the Motif their are Voices (preset sounds) and controllers / knobs that allow you to tweak your sounds and save them.

i use the MP as the sequencer but looking at the Motif sequencer you have two different methods of organizing your compositions. Song / Pattern Modes.

the only obvious dislike i have is the steep learning curve the file system and customization parameters

but on the flip side you can purchase instructional DVD's or go to Motifator.com to get help

at this point the Motif gets a A+ for its abilities out the box and expandiblity capabilities of its Voices

the more i use it i guess i will discover its limitations but on the surface everything is looking like i made the right choice

I own the classic Motif, so I'm not sure what's changed in the Motif ES but...

-It lacks good bass sounds for hip hop.
-Horrendous learning curve and manual. (videos available on motifator.com) Often I say to myself, "why would they possibly lay this out they way they did?" If you're coming from an MPC, be prepared. The MPC is intuitive while the motif is awkward.
-The sounds are "real-sounding" and many don't work for hip-hop.

I also own the Triton. Sound-wise, I would recommend it over the motif for hip-hop.

Wdup Mesh,

I am pretty usefull with a Triton or Trinity, and I have used the Motif a few times. I own a Phantom. I copped that for several resons. Most importantly, the sounds in the triton are used and abused. Even people who don't listen to hip hop are sick of the sounds from having swizz and other producers joints crammed down thier throats with all those un-edited triton patches. Keep in mind that the triton is really just an improvement on the trinity engine. Yeah, you can edit real deep, but I just don't like the sound of the thing. The Motif gets good revues, and I'm sure you know, Yamaha makes a good synth...always. Some of the sounds are just a bit too clean, although, if you can get past the intense learning curve and annoying screen and interface, you can make it sound pretty hot. I feel that, aside from strings, Yamaha makes the most realistic sounds in the industry. With a breath controller, you can really pimp it out...
I wanted an xv-5080, has lots of outputs and expansions slots. But, I copped the Phantom cus it runs on the same engine, but has some more performance oriented patches, and is a sick controller. Plus, although it lacks the 8 outputs and 4 slots of the 5080, the interface is bangin! No touch screen that makes you wait for a redraw, but the display is still huge. even bigger than the triton. There is a multitimbre screen w/ all your patches, channels, volumes and pans laid out, in BIG letters and numbers, plus a kick-as 'list' button, where it will give you all your instruments and expansions by category. It's just mad more intuitive than any other 'all-around' use keyboard I've ever used. And trust me, I've used all of them. They don't make the non-sampler Phantom version anymore, which is the one I copped, but if you can find the synth only version, it's real cheap now, too. I vote for the Phantom, cause I got the 5080 engine with whole other presets than the 5080, two slots, digital spdif out, easy interface, zero learning curve, extremely editable, and my shit don't sound like everyone elses. Plus the controller is hot. I mean, you probably have a controller, but I really like the knobs on the Roland joints versus korg and yamaha. And the d-beam is fully asignable, and real useful. Throw breath effects in your horn sounds real quick, or filter shit with ease. I can't say enough good things about this unit. Happy Copping...

I tried a Motif but took it back aftter one week to cop the Fantom-S88.

Why? I'm a Roland guy, I stick with what I know. Roland products are great for everyone from novices to pros, cause their user interfaces are user friendly. The menus and functions seem to work in a way that's easy to understand. There is a minimal learning curve.

As far as sounds, the Fantom has great sounds. Although not 180 MB worth like the Motif. I don't really big up the presets anyways cause I always tweak the sounds.

If you like clean sounds like flamenco guitars, flugelhorns (?) to write bullfighting music or something and don't mind getting lost with funny menus and screens, the Motif is just right for you.

If you want good sounds, simplicity and a nice gunmetal finish, cop the Fantom. I did.

Peace.

I got a bought a classic triton because of it's ease of use when sequencing and graphic interface. Everything else on it is cool also. I do miss bieng able to sample your output like the ASR10 does (very well) but the triton studio has this feature. The sounds of the triton are good but overused in their unedited form way too much by swizzbeats and the neptunes. Deep customization on samples and internal patches as well. Another cool thing is that from the net I can download PCG's which mimic many other famous keyboards and sounds. I downloaded a Karm PCG not too long ago and it turned my default sound bank into Karma's default sound bank supposedly. I've only touched the Karm a few times so I don't know if I had ALL the sounds or not but they were very nice. MANY different keyboard PCG's on the net to be found and played with.

"Roland products are great for everyone from novices to pros, cause their user interfaces are user friendly"

My Vs-1880 came with 3 books, and a quick start guide.. My R8-II came with a manual, and the quick start guide.. both were a pain in the @55 to figure out, actually, I still don't really know them like I do my MPC. I used the fantom-S and didn't like it..This is a personal opinion. The sounds are almost identical to those in their groovebox drum machines. The sequencer was alright, but I couldn't figure out how to switch tracks without changing the instruments on the other tracks. I may just be used to the MPC's TR+ / TR- buttons being right infront of me, and I'm also sure that I would have figured it out in no time. I bought the Yamaha S-90. It is the same thing as the Motif, but it doesn't have a sequencer or sampler.. since we have MPC's, they are options I didn't want to (A) Learn, and (B) pay for. The sounds are great, and I learned what I needed in a few weeks. The keyboard feels great, and even though I can't play, I don't have friends that can, and no-one has complained. The sounds are very realistic. The bad thing about it is (1) it needs more sounds. It has a nice variety of piano's, horns etc, but when it comes to drum sounds, a lot of the kits have the same sounds. Not very many claps/finger snaps. I love the drums that is has, just needs more. and (2) learning curve is a biyarch. I know the basics, but there's a lot I don't know.
Basically, if you want a full-sized keyboard with weighted keys, but don't want to pay a full sized price, you sould definately look at the S-90. For $1899, it's the cheapest your gonna pay for a keyboard with a lot of features.


: cream.of.beats :

roland manuals aren't very well written/translated from japanese

roxstar wrote:"Roland products are great for everyone from novices to pros, cause their user interfaces are user friendly"

My Vs-1880 came with 3 books, and a quick start guide.. My R8-II came with a manual, and the quick start guide.. both were a pain in the @55 to figure out, actually, I still don't really know them like I do my MPC. I used the fantom-S and didn't like it..This is a personal opinion. The sounds are almost identical to those in their groovebox drum machines. The sequencer was alright, but I couldn't figure out how to switch tracks without changing the instruments on the other tracks. I may just be used to the MPC's TR+ / TR- buttons being right infront of me, and I'm also sure that I would have figured it out in no time. I bought the Yamaha S-90. It is the same thing as the Motif, but it doesn't have a sequencer or sampler.. since we have MPC's, they are options I didn't want to (A) Learn, and (B) pay for. The sounds are great, and I learned what I needed in a few weeks. The keyboard feels great, and even though I can't play, I don't have friends that can, and no-one has complained. The sounds are very realistic. The bad thing about it is (1) it needs more sounds. It has a nice variety of piano's, horns etc, but when it comes to drum sounds, a lot of the kits have the same sounds. Not very many claps/finger snaps. I love the drums that is has, just needs more. and (2) learning curve is a biyarch. I know the basics, but there's a lot I don't know.
Basically, if you want a full-sized keyboard with weighted keys, but don't want to pay a full sized price, you sould definately look at the S-90. For $1899, it's the cheapest your gonna pay for a keyboard with a lot of features.


: cream.of.beats :

I suppose I should have made a reference to Roland's current line of products. Their older stuff was hard to move around in but as the years have passed, Roland has made an effort to write some of the best instrument OS software out there. It's all a matter of personal taste though. While I like the MOTIF's stock sounds, once I upgraded the Fantom-S with a couple of SRX boards, I found I was getting the same caliber of acoustic sounds (pianos, brass, guitars, etc.) that the MOTIF contains. The boards came with the purchase, I personally don't use them but at least it has the options available. Some people are well schooled on Yamaha, some are well schooled on Roland, Korg, Kurzweil etc.

Mesh, just keep in mind that if you're at the ground floor, you need to buckle down and LEARN whatever it is you get. Experiences in the store and experiences in the lab are two different things. Sometimes a synth seems great in the store and then when you get it to the crib, you suddenly don't like it no more and want to take it back. The retail stores will only let you swap synths for so long. Take what you get and learn it well, that way you get the full potential out of it and you're never at a loss.

I think we all can agree on that. Nose to the grindstone, seen.

Peace.