For discussion about setting up your studio and advice on the gear and equipment within it.
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By cybernaga595 Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:45 pm
Just hooked up my Pro Tools with Digi 001 and I'm thinking of getting the 8 out board for the mpc. Im wandering if most you guys go directly from 8 outs on the MPC to the Digi 001 and eq there, or do you go from 8 outs -> mixer ->Digi 001.

My current mixer only has Mackie 1202 VLZ pro (4 line inputs, 4 stereo inputs) , and i'm not sure if i need to upgrade to a mixer with higher inputs. What i'm trying to do is get the best eq out of my drums/samples either before or during tracking. Any suggestions? Is it better to track into the DAW (PT), then EQ? Or Eq before, then go into the Digi 001? Is there a major difference? Any help would be much appreciated!! Thanks for all future responses.
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By eightsixteen Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:34 pm
I would think you're better off recording each MPC track straight into ProTools (no mixer) and using ProTools to set the EQ. I have a 1202 also and although it is a great mixer with good EQ, I'm sure ProTools EQs and plugins are much better quality and much more versatile. When you think about it, you don't even need an 8 out board, just solo each track and record it into its own track in ProTools.
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By Swissmaster Cheese Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:51 pm
eightsixteen wrote:When you think about it, you don't even need an 8 out board, just solo each track and record it into its own track in ProTools.


yeah, but thats if you have alot of time on your hands to do it the hard way which in this day and age is just silly......just cop the 8 outs board and get busy...
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By Lampdog Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:58 pm
cybernaga595 wrote:Just hooked up my Pro Tools with Digi 001 and I'm thinking of getting the 8 out board for the mpc. Im wandering if most you guys go directly from 8 outs on the MPC to the Digi 001 and eq there, or do you go from 8 outs -> mixer ->Digi 001.

My current mixer only has Mackie 1202 VLZ pro (4 line inputs, 4 stereo inputs) , and i'm not sure if i need to upgrade to a mixer with higher inputs. What i'm trying to do is get the best eq out of my drums/samples either before or during tracking. Any suggestions? Is it better to track into the DAW (PT), then EQ? Or Eq before, then go into the Digi 001? Is there a major difference? Any help would be much appreciated!! Thanks for all future responses.

I've know people to connect the 8outs directly into a Motu828 and/or digi 001 (no mixer) because they wanted their tracks to be recorded into the computer with no effects. That way they can process non-destructive realtime effects and also have track seperation (thanks to the 8outs). Soloing each track and recording (without 8outs) is just madness, but, you do what you gotta do to create your own shortcuts and workarounds to fit your needs....
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By Donjay Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:09 pm
I had the 8 out's on my MPC 2000xl before i sold it to get the 4000. I used ithem to seperate all my sounds and place them on diffrent tracks on Pro Tools for Mixing and editing reasons. It gives you total control over all sounds in your mixing domain.

Now Im looking to get the 8 out's on the MPC 4000.
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By cybernaga595 Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:58 pm
Thanks for all the help fellas!! I think ima go straight from the 8 outs into PT and use the eqs and processing there.

By phatbeats Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:10 am
Can you record midi tracks from other synths through the mpc onto pro tools? If not would that mean that I would have to hook each synth or sound module one by one to a digi 002 in order to record to pro tools?
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By cybernaga595 Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:53 am
I believe you can, but i dunno how to set this up [just started working with PT this week!]. Maybe someone else here can help you, i believe its possible as you can ssequence midi tracks...
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By Lampdog Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:49 am
phatbeats wrote:Can you record midi tracks from other synths through the mpc onto pro tools? If not would that mean that I would have to hook each synth or sound module one by one to a digi 002 in order to record to pro tools?


Yes, hook up mpc and synths outputs into the digi.
Hook up the synths midi's to the MPC.
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By mesh Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:31 am
phatbeats wrote:Can you record midi tracks from other synths through the mpc onto pro tools? If not would that mean that I would have to hook each synth or sound module one by one to a digi 002 in order to record to pro tools?


sounds like you need a patchbay. you cant actually run the audio from your synths thru the mpc.

so if youre working with a 002, you got 8 analog ins on it, and if you had the 8 outs on your mpc then that would tie up all your ins to the 002, leaving no room for the synths. but if you get a patchbay you can hook up all your outputs and inputs to the bay and just patch away as you track. make sense? if not let me know what kind of i/o youre working with and i could lay it out real quick for you.

By D_Samp Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:05 pm
along the lines of what mesh said

what i do is run everything through my 1402 mackie mixer and have hooked the ALT 3 & 4 outputs up to the 1 & 2 input of my DELTA44 card (though any audio interface applies)

this way i can have anything playing through the mixer and i will only record the channels that have the ALT 3/4 button down

(and of course you can still monitor this channel by pressing the 3/4 button in the C-R section).

ahem anyway, i hard-wire all my gear to their own channels, including the STEREO outs of my MPC

i DONT hard-wire (which just means permanently plugged in) the 8-OUTS though, i put them into a Patchbay which means i still have access to them when i need to track with 8 outs or in case i am editting a pc-written track to fit on the MPC for live gigs.


the mackie 1402 VLX PRO is a good mixer for its price by the way and i have no concerns about it degrading sound quality, hence i dont hook record-sources straight up to my audio card. i LIKE the sound of the Mackie pre-amps... but thats getting into talk of the difference between chip distortion and harmonic pre-amp distortion non-linear ratings...
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By trupro Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:58 pm
No matter how many tracks you lay at once, you can use the standard method I describe below. This will let you lay tracks, start over, and keep laying, all from the same start point down to the frame. DOG YOU SHOULD REALLY COP YOUR 8 OUTS THO! For one, say you got sixteen tracks from the MPC. If your going stereo, you gotta lay 8 passes,; even more if you got stereo sounds. W./ the outs: 2 passes+. The $250 or whatever is worth it. Plus, if someone pays you to lay a track, you may have to bring your mpc to a studio, and if you have the 8 outs, you are streamlining thier process, and they will like that. Most important, just for making beats, how you gonna mix a real track down to a beat CD, or whatever, when you ain't runnin the sounds individually thru a mixer, channel by channel by channel. Yeah I make stereo only beats, but there's no substitute for mixing like a professional. It's not possible to compress a snare, when you can't separate that snare on it's own output, etc. Eq, effects: same deal. ANYWAY, use the formula below, and PM me if you got questions.

Won... TruPro



OK, do the following: Connect a midi cable from OUT 1 on protools rig, to IN B (or 2) on your MPC. (I use the second port there because I have a synth pugged into the first midi in).
First, deal with the MPC. Hold shift+MIDI/SYNC on your MPC to open up the sync window. There you will see two columns: one sync in, one for sync out. Left side is "in" parameters, so do the following:
Change it to IN: B (or whichever port on the MPC you have used for this) then cursor down to type and frame rate. Scroll with the wheel on this field untill you have MTC (MIDI Time Code) and change the frame rate to 30fps (frames per second). Hit main screen to go back to your sequences. Go to an UNUSED sequence and change the bar count to one (1), then make sure the tempo is the same BPM as your song. OK, so now you have a sequence that is 1 BLANK BAR. Now, in song mode, put together whatever you want to lay down. If there alot of changes on most tracks, lay all your sequences. If there are only a only a few changes in your overall song, put only the sequences in song mode that contain variations. You will be arranging in ProTools after this anyway, so don't use sections that are like say, just duplicates of the main sequence with a double snare trick or something; you'll just be wasting hard disk space. OK, next, when your whole song is all good, insert the 1 BAR BLANK SEQUENCE as the FIRST step . I'll explain later, if you don't already know why. Now for the computer...in ProTools, open up the windows column on the top bar. The drop-down menu contains stuff like "show transport", etc. Move the mouse down and click on "Show Session Setup". A window opens with some parameters. Toward the bottom, you will see "MTC to Port". That's gonna select where time code from PT comes out of the computer, so click the circle next to DIGI 002, etc. 30fps should be the default and already selected. Next, on the transport (if it's not showing, use that drop down menu again), you need to be showing the full bar. If it's not, go to Views, and drop to "Transport shows". Make it show everything. Now, you will see, on the transport bar, a little conductor dude icon. Kill that guy, he's a loser. Just click on it so the light goes off. The BPMs next to him are set at 120. Click to highlight and change them to the BPM of the joint you are laying down. NOTE: if you enter decimals, watch out! Say your tempo in the MPC is 95.5 you need to add a ZERO when you enter that into Protools. Type 95.50 or else it will end up as 95.05, which is wrong!
OK, now hit enter, and look at the left area of the transport bar. You will see preroll and postroll. (before we go any further, make sure you're time codes are all set to BARS and BEATS on the top of the screen) In each section of the pre-roll, you must click and enter the right number, so follow the example: type one (1) and hit enter in the leftmost number; that's 1 BAR. This preroll will go by and play that blank bar you inserted in the MPC songmode earlier. This gives a little time to lock the two together, so if you have a really early drum sound or synth note on the first hit, it won't miss it!! Click on the silver PreRoll on the Protools transport bar to activate this. NOW...
Make sure in the top left that you have selected GRID mode.
Now highlight the length of the joint you are laying. Again, if it's just a four bar loop, you should only have: the blank bar for preroll, and four bars worth of sequences in song mode. Or, whatever length you are really gonna lay down. In protools, take the cursor tool to any track edit area, and highlight the TOTAL bar length you are laying down. AND, start at bar two on the highlight. That preroll area will not record data, it's just lockup time. So now, on the transport bar in PT, you will see the following (I'll use a four bar example): Start: 2/1/0 End: 6/1/0 Length: 4/1/0
If I have synth sounds or acoustic recording that will linger over the bar count and hence be cut off by looping, I highlight a 5 bar length on a four bar sequence. Then later, I can cut all but those tracks to a four bar length, and let those 'extras' stay longer, moving and crossfading them later on. But for tight loops, the technique remains simple. OK, Almost done!! In the MPC, MUTE all the track in the sequence you are not laying on a particulatr pass. For instace, say you got 16 tracks of sequencing, and only 8 outputs going to protools. Mute the other 8 in the MPC. You will of course lay the first 8. Go Back, mute the ones you laid, then unmute the ones you didn't, arm new tracks in PT, and so on.
NOW, when you hit play or play/record in protools, the MPC will start playing. IF YOU HAVE A 2000, you need to hit PLAY/START on the MPC first in song mode, and the bottom of the screen on the MPC will display "Waiting for Time Code". If you have a 2000XL, just starting ProTools will trigger the MPC2000XL automatically.

Good luck. PM me for any followups.
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By trupro Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:12 pm
About that signal chain stuff you spoke on: mpc>mixer>digi 001

The standard steeze is to kkep all your mpc outs, keyboards, modules; whatever sound sources, plugged into your board. Out of the inserts in the mixer, for each channel, you run to a stereo insert loop cable(trs to dual mono quater inch) to the ins behind a patchbay. The normled outs that pop
out the back of the bay for those same channels, get the other mono side of the insert cable, and come back to the very channel they came out of on the board's insert. So, you got your sounds channel by channel on the mixer, but now it's running thru the patchbay. Now, when you patch into those channels on the bay, connecting the front jack of say chanel 1&2 from the board (maybe stereo mpc or whatever), you broken the normled setup, and instead of being in th board, it's bypassing that channel and going strait to the bay. Now that jacks other end gets patched into the Digi001. So you ain't unplugging from the mixer all the time, your just re-patching on the patchbay when you wanna record. Saves the input wear and tear on the mixer, and eliminates extra noise by not going into the boards eq, mute, solo, and fader circiut sections. Cus, lets be real, you want to add eq after, not before. Unless, you **** w/ a $100,000 plus console, and then...that's a whole 'nuther topic. Hope this helps.
Cop the 8 outs, and cop a nuetrik patch bay w some patch cables, and 8 insert trs loops. The whole ish as a package from sweetwater.com (just an example, you could get it cheaper, but thier cables are real good, and real cheap proco made) might run you like $500 TOPS for everything I just described. It's improve you mixing, your recording, and your time management. At the very least, get your 8 outs on, buddy.

By average Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:12 pm
Your best bet is probably to just track directly into protools. Clean, with no outside processing. That way, you can manipulate a sound any way you want it, without committing to any particular effect, or eq. However if you know you want a certain effect or sumthin' on a sound, then tweak while you're tracking. But once you do that, It's pretty much irreversible.

By D_Samp Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:55 am
...or you could just use SMPTE

read your manual.