dodgy set-up - midi

hi,

I am totally new to music and started buying some gear. question is, should I replace them or is there a workaround, I have:

- mpc1000
- keystudio 49 keys midi keyboard (connect via USB)
- Mbox 2 mini without midi inputs
- pro tools 8
- pc
- av-40 monitors from m-audio


is it possible to use the MPC as master and sequence and do everyhting in Midi?

I think ultimately I want the following set up


questions are:
- would a USB-Midi cable do the trick between the PC and the MPC?
- can I do anything with the keyboard?

thanks for your help!

I think a USB to MIDI cable based interface would work there. But you'll need to have a way to power the keyboard if the USB port is used for the interface cable. Normally a DC power pack matching the electric spec and polarity needs of the keyboard. Place like Radio Shack in the US sell ones with a tiny plug that can be flipped to make sure the polarity matches.

I think another method would be to hook the keyboard up to the computer over USB so you get bus power and MIDI over USB. You'd still want the USB to MIDI cable, but in this case use it another USB port on the computer and plug the 5 pin MIDI into the MPC. But this method will require a DAW running to route the MIDI. Most any DAW can do this, Ableton is particularly easy to use here by enabling "View In/Out" on you MIDI tracks. Essentially using Live as a MIDI virtual patch bay.

I only mention the second method because you've shown you'll be running a computer anyway. know some might want to do a similar setup and leave the computer out when using an MPC.

I think I'm looking at this right. But I'm half asleep so apologies if I'm looking at this wrong. But I think one of those two ways will work.

Metatron72 wrote:I think another method would be to hook the keyboard up to the computer over USB

I think that is the only way...he says it is a Keystation 49, which only has a USB port, no MIDI port.

(unless it is a class compliant USB MIDI device, in which case he could use a MIDI USB host box, to convert the USB port into a MIDI port, but it would probably not be worth it)

thanks for the reply guys.
indeed, there is only a usb port on the keystudio.

so if I follow you Metatron72:
1/ Keystudio goes USB to PC
2/ MBox Mini goes USB out / Midi In MPC via a USB to Midi Cable
3/ replace Pro Tools with Ableton if PT does not handle the Midi routing

is it correct?

Now, SimonInAustralia how do I check if the keystudio is "a class compliant USB MIDI device" ? (as a back up option)

edit: from the user guide

Your KeyStudio keyboard functions as a class-compliant device

is that what you meant?



cheers

pogba wrote:2/ MBox Mini goes USB out / Midi In MPC via a USB to Midi Cable

MBox Mini is an audio interface for the computer, you have to connect the MBox Mini to a USB port on the computer. Then you connect the audio outputs of the MPC to the audio inputs of the MBox Mini, if you want to record audio from the MPC into the computer.

The USB to MIDI cable is a MIDI interface for the computer, you have to connect the USB to MIDI cable to a USB port on the computer. Then you connect the DIN MIDI port on the cable to the MPC, or other MIDI device that you want to control from the computer.

pogba wrote:Now, SimonInAustralia how do I check if the keystudio is "a class compliant USB MIDI device" ? (as a back up option)

edit: from the user guide

Your KeyStudio keyboard functions as a class-compliant device

is that what you meant?

Yes, that gives you an (expensive) option of using something like the Kenton MIDI USB Host box, which converts the USB MIDI output of the keyboard directly to DIN MIDI, without needing a computer inbetween. Might be more cost effective to buy a new keyboard though, which has DIN MIDI ports.

http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml

SimonInAustralia wrote:

pogba wrote:2/ MBox Mini goes USB out / Midi In MPC via a USB to Midi Cable

MBox Mini is an audio interface for the computer, you have to connect the MBox Mini to a USB port on the computer. Then you connect the audio outputs of the MPC to the audio inputs of the MBox Mini, if you want to record audio from the MPC into the computer.

The USB to MIDI cable is a MIDI interface for the computer, you have to connect the USB to MIDI cable to a USB port on the computer. Then you connect the DIN MIDI port on the cable to the MPC, or other MIDI device that you want to control from the computer.

this way can I use the MPC as master? not sure if I was clear before but I want to use the MPC for sequencing.
if so I would only need to replace the keyboard with a midi device (midi usb host box is indeed quite pricey against what I paid for the keystudio).

So long as your DAW can accept the MPC as the clock master I would say yeah. Like Logic 9 was not able to do that, not sure on 10. I'm 99.999% sure Pro Tools will take the MPC as the master.

So I was thinking when mentioning routing MIDI in a DAW...you have the M-Audio hooked normally bus powered on a USB port. Then you have an inexpensive USB to MIDI cable on another port. Your computer and DAW see the cable interface as an addressable MIDI device. Then use a DAW to route your keyboard input out to the interface cable which would be plugged into the MPC.

I don't have PT but I've done this exact setup before with Ableton. And I don't think it's anything special about Live that allows it. It's just it's MIDI routing arrow key pull down menu routing is super easy to use.

But Simon is more in the flow of studio wiring daily than me. So if I missed something he might be the one to notice anything I overlooked.

so if I follow you, I need to buy two midi/usb cables and I have the following set up:



should give the result expected right?

No just one would suffice I think. So long as the USB MIDI cable interface you get has MIDI In and Out. But you'll need 2 standard 5 pin MIDI DIN cables to plug from the MIDI I/O in and out of the MPC using the USB cable/interface you'd get as the MIDI interface PT will see as ports. ( or not...*See the Edit )

But look close at the USB MIDI interface/cable you are going to buy. You may need no extra standard MIDI cables if the interface has male connectors to plug into the female ones on the MPC.

The first part of my reply was thinking the interface cable would end in one female for Out one for In, thus necessitating two DIN cables. So if it ends in two male ones you don't need the 2 standard ones added.

Edit* Yeah, the majority of the ones I'm looking at end in two male connectors So just on MIDI USB will work and the DAW will see one In and one Out. But you'll need to be sure PT can take the M-Audio input and direct that to the interface's MIDI Out.



As mentioned hooking the keys direct to the MPC would be how many people would do it, but that's tricky with your keyboard having just USB. And some wouldn't have the DAW running. But I don't see why PT couldn't pass the M-Audio MIDI to the MPC over the interface cable's Out.

I don't use PT so I can't say 100%. But it's a pretty basic thing so I'm sure it's doable.

I use small USB MIDI boxes that have a separate USB cable to plug in, and they all have female ports so I need old school DIN cables to hook up. But these USB cable based ones are a simple all in one design.

good, the cable I ve bought is USB A Male to 2x MIDI 5-pin DIN Male IN/OUT.

for the sake of clarity (at least mine), based on what I understand here is what I plan to do:


I will give you a feedback once I receive the cable and set it up.

thanks.

I received the usb-midi cable!
I am now struggling to sync the mpc with PT.

does anyone know how to have the mpc1000 as master and PT as slave?

pogba wrote:does anyone know how to have the mpc1000 as master and PT as slave?

MTC.

is that in PT (sorry for the amateurism...)?

just let me recap what I have done so far on the mpc (running jjos 3.16):

when I press Midi/Sync I have the following:
MIDI tab:
- active track receive channel: ALL
- soft thru: AS TRACK
- sequence change by program change: OFF
- pad to internal sound: ON

SYNC tab:
- sync in: 1
- sync out: A

(also where I ve plugged the midi-usb cable).
I think this is correct and that was the easy part.

now in PT 8, I can't seem to add the mpc1000 since the mpc2000 is the first model recognized from akai by Midi Studio.
and for the rest I'm lost.

Pro Tools can generate and receive MIDI Time Code (MTC), so when using MTC, Pro Tools can be either master or a slave.

The MPC1000 with the Akai OS, and the free JJOS, do not use MTC for sync, so you would need a paid JJOS version to use MTC for sync.

MTC only carries time location information, no tempo or bar/beat location information, so will not sync the tempo of the connected devices, you still need to set the tempo, and any tempo changes, in each device.

MTC sending and receiving is enabled in the Setup/Peripherals/Synchronization window, where a MIDI port is selected to be an MTC reader and/or generator.


Pro Tools can only send MIDI Beat Clock (MIDI Clock), not sync to it, so when using MIDI Clock, Pro Tools can only be the master.

The MPC1000 would need to be set to receive incoming MIDI Clock from Pro Tools, so Pro Tools would be the MIDI Clock master, and the MPC1000 would be a MIDI Clock slave.

Not sure about Pro Tools 8, can't remember that far back, but on Pro Tools 11 there is a menu choice under Setup/MIDI/MIDI Beat Clock, and you enable the sending of MIDI Clock and which MIDI ports it is sent to.


You do not need to setup anything in the Pro Tools MIDI Studio setup window for MTC or MIDI Clock, you just enable MTC reading/generating, or MIDI Clock transmission, for the MIDI ports as required, as described above.

thanks for the reply, I guess my best option is to get a pay version of jjos then.

here is a screenshot of Setup/MIDI/MIDI Beat Clock under PT 8: