Realtime Start issue-Newbie thing...

Hi All-

New to the MPC, not so new to MIDI but not an expert by any means. I'm having the weirdest issue...Using a NOU 4 to just do a realtime start message to the MPC and I keep getting an 8 count before the song starts. I went into MIDI and turned it off count, metronome, etc, and it still seems to happen. I've also altered it to 1/32 and it stays in an 8 count. Is it an external sync thing? It's not a huge issue, it's just annoying and I can't figure out where I need to turn this off...what am I missing...?

Thanks in advance for any help-it seems like this should be a really simple thing that I'm just missing...

...and btw already RTFM and searched-I'm just not seeing/figuring out what the issue or why it seems to count in.

Thanks again...

what is an NOU4? You've got the MPC set to sync and whatever port you've got hooked up? Maybe it's an issue w NOU4? Could it be a bad MIDI cable? Are you using a MIDI interface?

the NUO4 is a dj mixer i beleive

Quick google on nuo4. It has MIDI control (ala Traktor), that's entirely different than having MIDI clock or sync of any kind. In fact, I didn't see anything that had a start or tempo button. The knobs are controllers, akin to your sliders on the MPC. Why is this important? What are you trying to do?

No, there's no MIDI clock. The Ecler Nuo 4 is a MIDI DJ mixer as stated above. I'm creating what will hopefully be a very cool DJ set up for the artist I'm working with.

I need the Nuo to simply send a start/stop message (standard MIDI realtime message). The odd thing is...I found one reference to what may be happening-it may be somehow accessing overdub mode (pg 13 of the Manual, but it doesn't seem to record any pad taps).

The Nuo will be a MIDI start/stop to control the MPC which will then control program changes for a Numark CDX and a Korg Kaoss Pad.

The Nuo can only be programmed via USB so I can't get info/feedback that way-right now I would be happy if I could just shut off the count (I'm not infront of the MPC right now-can I change the default in the Overdub mode?

sounds like a function of the mixer. You'll need to find a NUO forum I guess... I don't know anything about that mixer.

I don't think it's the mixer because the same thing doesn't happen with realtime stop and its not a setable parameter...

Funny this should come up, my roommate recently took delivery of a Nuo 4.

He's not here at the moment so I didn't want to try any "live test" hooking up my gear to his and messing around without asking him first, but this did get me curious so I had a walk into the next room to have a look at the unit and it's manual.

One thing I noticed is that the manual states that the unit does in fact send midi clock, along with stop/start/continue. BPM is set with the Nuo tap tempo or a user-assigned rotary. Of course the MPC must be set to external sync to use this clock, otherwise it will only be receiving the stop/start/continue and otherwise running on it's own clock.

I would suggest that since you are using the Nuo as the master stop/start control that you should also use the Nuo clock as well and set the MPC to external sync. Technically, it should work either way but this could be causing complications.

If you have fully disabled MPC count-in then you should not get one, period. I do not have this problem with external sync. Which MPC operating system are you using?

The only other thing I can think of is that the Nuo is sending some weird unrecognized midi message that is triggering a software bug in the MPC. That's not impossible -- I've seen sysex from one unit demolish the entire patch memory of one of my midi interfaces.. also saw normal midi do the same thing to an Elektron Sid Station (junk!) -- but your problem is pretty unusual. One thing to try is to hook the Nuo midi out up to a midi monitor program to see exactly what it's sending.

Keep us posted. I'll let you know if I figure anything else out or if I get a chance to try it....

BTW your comment about realtime stop doesn't make any sense to me -- there's no "count out" function -- only "count in" after play/start if it's engaged.

so I'm starting to get that the MPC is set up around MIDI Note Numbers, not control changes. I can set up the mixer to send Note Numbers, I just was hoping to have other options. The JJ Os may take care of this-Im buying as soon as the new release is ready!!!

Thanks for the help everyone!

Huh? Note numbers? How will that solve your problem?

The only thing note numbers control on the MPC is direct sample triggering within a program. Nothing else. If you want to trigger a string of one-shot samples (can't do MPC note-on because you need to generate note-off with the Nuo as well) with a twist of one of the Nuo's control knobs be my guest but it won't do much else.

Control change is not yet implemented in the JJ (supposedly coming soon, can't wait either) but that's for sound and mix parameters.

System realtime messages like stop/start/continue and clock are not Control change messages -- it's a category in itself. The MPC has always responded to these. I've never had a problem with 'em on my end.

will do note on and note off.

I was looking at page 43 of the manual-which state that you can trigger sequences from pad, and actually it doesn't really solve the problem.

Yes, realtime start is a standard MIDI message, I have no idea why this is still giving me a count off after I turned click/metronome off. Stop causes no problems just start...?

All I want to do is start a sequence without a count...

Just saw the other post-missed it before-yes there is a tap function and that very well could be the source of this-a bpm issue. I find those tap things annoying so I immediately ignored it an maybe its bitting me in the ass.

realtime stop...is just the way its listed, I just meant that if you hit stop, it stops.

Thanks-let me play with that a little and get back to you guys.

BTW if you're a DJ, try the mixer, it sound great and feels even better. Every DJ whose has touched it over here loves the thing...

One thing I noticed is that the manual states that the unit does in fact send midi clock, along with stop/start/continue. BPM is set with the Nuo tap tempo or a user-assigned rotary. Of course the MPC must be set to external sync to use this clock, otherwise it will only be receiving the stop/start/continue and otherwise running on it's own clock.

I would suggest that since you are using the Nuo as the master stop/start control that you should also use the Nuo clock as well and set the MPC to external sync. Technically, it should work either way but this could be causing complications.

Okay-after finding the SECOND Manual, going over your post and experimenting I think your answer is dead on...
________
From the Nuo Manual (I bought it open box, so I didn't get the info-had to download it)

6.4.1. MIDI Clock
The NUO4 transmits a standard timing message named MIDI Clock, to synchronize one or several external MIDI
devices. The synchronization signal is the same message sent 24 times per quarter note.
To control a MIDI device, remember this device has to operate in slave mode (external Clock).
The NUO4 has no internal processor for BPM calculation. The tempo for a specific musical part has to be manually
set, repeatedly pressing the TAP button (a minimum of 5 times) to the desired tempo. The TAP button blinks to the
BPM rate you established.
A more precise BPM adjustment can be done assigning one of the MIDI controls to this function with
Ecler Control 4 Lab software.
MIDI Clock can be deactivated by holding down the TAP button more than 3 seconds. When this happens, TAP
button does not blink. Once deactivated, it will not operate until you explicitly activate it by holding down the TAP
button more than 3 seconds. The selected mode will be maintained after shutdown.
Tempo default value is 120 BPM after each shutdown or MIDI Clock activation.
________

It's pretty aggrivating because it does have a BPM adjust feature but now I need the to figure out the Control Change for BPM on the MPC because syncing the MIDI clock doesn't seem to allow for adjusting the MPC's BPM (and I don't trust nor do I seem to be getting good results from TAP) and the Nuo can't be set to a specific numeric value (remember I'm new to the MPC so maybe this is a dumb or mistaken approach).

Any suggestions? The implementation chart doesn't list specific CC's-is there a another place to create an external control specifically for BPM?

Thanks again for your help-I truely needed it!!!

You need to send a MIDI start via MIDIclock for this to work. MIDI clock might be useful for a delay or LFO to sync to and be in time. Is there any way to send a start msg?

Thanks for the response-I'll explain the whole situation-

I'm send a standard MIDI realtime start message. The MPC DOES start, after about 2 bars. When I hit the button it goes to 'EXT' and blinks for about 8 measures and then starts.

I just want it to start when I hit the button-no count in. It seems to be a BPM issue but I can't directly set the actual BPM on the Nuo 4-there's no place to give it a number.

I've turnned off click and count. Oddly enough, I found one referencein the manual that in 'overdub' that the MPC defaults to a 2 bar count before starting. It's the only other thing that seems like it could be happening.

If there were a way to remotely access the BPM through the Nuo, the problem may be solved. Otherwise, I'm pretty much ready to give up.

Thanks again.