1000 with Moog Voyager

Hi Paul,

Back in London now...any gigs etc giz a shout.

Nice one

punkdISCO wrote:Basically, analogue is easy and instant: everything you do sounds good. With a digital synth you have to work at it..

i completely agree with you.
i cannot say that i can hear the difference beetween a real analog and a good emulation. the main difference IMHO is the amount of time (+knowledge) one have to spend to program a good emulation.

anyway for cheap and cheerfull analog gear, check out mfb.
http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Musikel ... h_iie.html

the lowpass auto-oscillations are lovely. does fm also (on filter cutoff it sounds real nice). has an audio in (perfect to beef boring samples). and the audio in does filter saturation when no jack is plugged

Just got my first real analogue synth...very basic mono (yamaha cs-5)..have to say its been a lot more fun and IMHO sounds better than the VA's I have had...Spent every night for the last week using it...there is something about real analogue that a digital algo can't capture I think.

truvc wrote:anyway for cheap and cheerfull analog gear, check out mfb.
http://www.mfberlin.de/Produkte/Musikel ... h_iie.html

the lowpass auto-oscillations are lovely. does fm also (on filter cutoff it sounds real nice). has an audio in (perfect to beef boring samples). and the audio in does filter saturation when no jack is plugged :P

What do you mean by "filter saturation when no jack is plugged in"?

I could not find a price, how much dod you get it for?

T

I use plenty of digi synths, but nothing compares with the real deal. Plugins are getting better and better all the time. And it's really cool to have a ton of presets to start from. But nothing compares with the real deal, cause you get all the knobs. And with the Voyager you get the presets too.

I know you can link them up to a midi controller. I do that all the time, but it is still not the same as an analog. Analog synths are unpredictible. Especially the old ones. You get a lot of cool pops and circuit noise that you don't get with software - though the Moog modular does a pretty good job with this.

Cool thing about the software synths is that you can get a lot more bang for your buck, and you can work fast. Can you really notice if its the real deal or an emulator in the mix? Depends on the software, but probably no, if its done right.

I have a Voyager in the studio and you can midi it up beautifully to an MPC. The only problem is that its monophonic, so you can only use 1 voice at a time, which can be limiting ifyou want to get that fat ass bassline down and then pull a lead on top.

So if you got a midi linked recorder, you'll have to lay tracks down to tape/computer.

But don't let them fool you... just like there's also software samplers out there, the hardware always let you be more creative. I just started using the MPC seriously and I can say this with truth.

If you're looking for a sweet analog monophonic try to find a Micro Moog. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but for basslines it will do the job nicely.

"I can not name a single digital synth that is regarded as collectable or has become valuable after production has stopped"

I am not sure what you mean by "valuable" but there are quite a few machines that are still actively sought on the 2nd hand market. Some prices may not have increased due to the large supply, but they have certainly held a steady value for a number of years:

PPG Wave - wavetable synth
Akai MPC60 - last 12-bit sampler/sequencer
Ensoniq ASR-10 - Ensoniq's last keyboard sampler
SC Prophet VS - SCI's only digital synth
Kawai K5000 - The last additive synth
Fairlight - early sampler
Synclavier - early sampler

Some old digital effects have earned collectable status.

Okay, I was being a little pedantic so I guess my real point is: you have to really struggle to find a digital synth that has become collectable/valuable, but you have managed to do that apart from the PPG Wave and SC Prophet VS which are both hybrids (Curtis analogue VCAs and VCFs, just like the SP1200).

You then mention the Kawai K5000. Okay, pure digital but awful! Not sure about how they are regarded in the US but you could not give one of those away in Europe. They really do have very little value..

You then mention the Akai MPC60 and ASR-10. Yeah baby, the MPC60 has a good status and there is no sign of that fading.. Not so with ASR-10 thought as again, very inexpensive and when you see one advertised, it is there month after month.. But also, the MPC is unique because of its interface and 12bityness..

The two that I agree with wholeheartedly are, the Fairlight and Synclavier. I dont have a clue what these puppies are worth but I believe they are regarded as collectable and I certainly would put them into the category of: "a purely digital synth that is collectable"

But this brings us back to the original point: we are struggling to find examples!

goldenechos wrote:What do you mean by "filter saturation when no jack is plugged in"?
I could not find a price, how much dod you get it for?

filter saturation is also called filter feedback. when no jack is pluged in the "audio in" the output of the filter is automaticaly routed to the input of the filter (the amount of feedback is then controled by the "audio in" volume knob).
it is a classic trick done on the minimoog.
for instance it can make basses sounds really wild and dirty.

i paid £300 new from the german website Touched By Sound.
http://www.touched-by-sound.com/

the mfb gear is listed under "fricke".

and btw, the synth2 has also 50 memories for user patches

"But this brings us back to the original point: we are struggling to find examples!"

It was no struggle at all.

The fact that "anything" digital has "any" value proves the point that some things cannot be superceded. I do not see anyone collecting an old 286 PC cause it "sounds better" or has "better timing". But people are still seeking equipment that is even older than a 286 (i.e. MPC60). The price is irrelevant since an ample 2nd hand supply will surely keep the price suppressed. Companies made many times more digital equipment than analog. Some analogs are so rare that you can count their number in existence on one or two hands. This, of course, keeps the price high.

value is in the eye of the beholder...one mans meat is another man's poison, if you catch my drift.

punkdISCO wrote:Hi Garth

"i still cant understand the obsesion with analouge, i hear a moog and i think great, it sounds like a moog"

Im surprised that you have played with a Moog and was not blown away by it; I was which is why I own one . I guess it is just a personal thing and very difficult to actually describe why you prefer analogue because it would take a whole day to write the email. Dynamics is a good starting point: Play the same note on a basic patch on a DX synth all day until your head starts pounding. Now play the same note on a basic patch on an analogue synth - every note will be subtly different so you dont suffer ear fatigue. Basically, analogue is easy and instant: everything you do sounds good. With a digital synth you have to work at it..

"i hear someone do something cool an old yamaha DX synth i think that sounds fukcing amazing"

Yeah, but FM synths are a type of synthesis in their own right, and yes, FM is very cool. I used to own a FS1R (FM Daddy) but the interface sucked so got FM7 instead (awesome!). However, a FM only track is going to sound VERY cold/lifeless and I wouldn't't give your ears too long until the start to bleed!

"for me 'real' digital synthersizers beat analougue hands down by real i mean not reliant on pcm sh*t"

The 3 main digital technologies are: 1) VA - no comparison with the real thing! 2) FM - out on its own 3) PCM - okay, I dont like these either but I guess they are okay for bread and butter sounds. To the day I die I will never understand how a complete genre (Hip Hop) be built around PCM (romplers)..

See you.

i can agree with you on most things you've said
especially about ALL FM tracks
i use to make tracks just with a tracker and a yamaha tx81z, i even used fm for all the percussion and everytime i'ld play one of these tracks to a friend there first comment would be
"this sounds like mega drive music" (sega genesis for you americans)

im deeply intersted in the fsr if i had a bit more dough i'ld probly get one, your actually the first person i've heard speak badly about it, did you try it with an editor?

the one pcm based synth ive really enjoyed was the wavestation (in legacy form, never tried the original)

i've never found the ear fatigue to be a real problem, it just seems more like a theoretical problem to me, im sure there is also ways around it.
i have an analougue filter for my fm synth and using it with a very slow and subtle s&h lfo could do the trick while still maintaing a digital type of timbre...just thought of that then

Hi

Ref: FS1R: "your actually the first person i've heard speak badly about it, did you try it with an editor?"

I did not comment on the FS1R other then referring to it as the 'FM Daddy' (which it is) and saying the interface sucked (which it does). The only people who will not mention the interface are those that have never used one. It has a big LCD so there is no reason why it should be so bad, however, the implementation is just incredibly complicated. For example: after 3 years I still could not work out what effects were part sends/part inserts/and global. I tried a few editors and got down to two: once was very good at the Multi programming and one for the actual sound. I came to the conclusion: if you are going to use and editor, cut out the middle-man and use FM7. FM7 does not sound quite as good but the interface is wonderful; there is not point in having all that power if it is impossible to access.. I never got into the Format stuff and clearly FM7 does not have this..

In the defence of the FS1R designers: They were up against an almost impossible task. There are well over 1,500 editable parameters. How do you provide a simple interface to that?!

"i've never found the ear fatigue to be a real problem, it just seems more like a theoretical problem to me"

Every used an Access Virus for more then 30 minutes? Used to drive me nuts.. Okay, im sure not every bodies ears start to bleed listening to a Virus, but mine did..

To relate this phenomena back to visual example that is easier to appreciate: Sit on a beach watching waves slowly breaking. 4 hours later and you are still there. Now, without moving, drop a firkin huge cinema screen in front of you playing a carefully looped version of a single wave break. You can't see the loop and at first everything is natural. 1 minutes later you will start to think 'something is not right here'. After 10 minutes you will go insane.. AKA any VA/rompler/etc... (Im not saying they dont have their place, Im just talking about ear fatigue..)

"...im sure there is also ways around it."

Yep, don't buy digital synths Okay, there are ways around it like your little FM/Filter trick, but with an analogue synth you get all this for free..

"...im sure there is also ways around it."

Buy a modular, or this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... eName=WDVW

jigginz wrote:"...im sure there is also ways around it."

Buy a modular, or this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... eName=WDVW

this thing is crazy

I am a huge fan of Jomox - No one, past or present, does drums like these guys. Its likely that everyone on this list would benefit from a Jomox box even if it only results in you being able to delete your 5000 kick drum samples/ 5000 snare samples etc.. (you own a Jomox and samples start to sound like, well, samples!)

However, I dont get the Resonator. Sure, never played with one or even heard one.. I guess I really should try and dig out some audio clips of the Resonator..

Anyone else HOT for the new xbase999?

http://www.jomox.de/xbase999.html

"Anyone else HOT for the new xbase999?"

Yes me!
Especially now i know it has track mutes, yippee...........

Hey Punk! (i love saying that, although think we've had a chat about this before), have you still not eaten since the announcement of the 999 being completed?
I have some food, let me know if you need some?

Me, i actually developed chronic diarrhoea at the prospect, and had a weird dream about a man killing drum machine last night.... way out!

Oh yes, i forgot. Here's a tip to keep this post on topic:

Sample the shit out of the Voyager, make some loops and then use the superb analogue filter in the Voyager to process your loops for that creamy filtered analogue sound.
You could even resample the treated loop.