MIDI help - recording CC's on different midi channels

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MIDI help - recording CC's on different midi channels

By balil2 Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:27 am
I'm trying to use the MPC 1k as master and the Elektron Machinedrum as slave. So far I've been successfll at triggering the MD from the MPC, syncing the MD from the MPC, but not successfull at recoding the knob tweaks. The MD is sending info on 4 seperate MIDI channels, and the MPC manual is unclear whether it can record midi from more then one MIDI channel.

I did verify that 'Active track receive channel' is set to ALL, and that 'Soft Thru is set to 'OMNI-AB'. So, as the manual states fon pages 46 & 47, the MPC should be listening to all midi channels, and output the incoming midi data as it is from both MIDI outs.

However, it's not working!!! Does any body have any suggestions, cause so far it looks like either the MPC is not receiving the MIDI data, or the MD is not receiving it - kind of obvious, but I'm just trying to check my bases here.

Thanks for any help,

Balil
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By stereoroid Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:26 am
Now, I don't have a device like the Machinedrum that sends on more than one MIDI channel, only a single channel, but that works - I can tweak knobs and the events are recorded by the sequencer and played back correctly. Do you mean that you record the incoming MIDI, but nothing appears in Step Edit? Or do you get MIDI notes only without CCs?

My understanding is that whatever the MPC1000 receives first goes through the Active Track Receive filter (which looks right), then is stripped of its channel information and routed to the selected Track for recording and routing (to the selected sample Program, or to MIDI out via Soft Thru)

So it can receive incoming MIDI on multiple channels, but the sequencer can't record multiple channels. The MIDI would get mixed up and sent to a single sequencer channel, the one you've selected on the Main page.

I've been looking at the Machinedrum manual * ... the architecture is a little confusing, eh? It looks to me like
a) You assign a Machine (sound) to one of the 16 tracks (slots) in a Kit.
b) That Kit maps directly to the 16 sequencer tracks.
c) The MIDI channel assignment for the Kit/Track is semi-fixed: you can change the base channel only.
d) If the base channel = 1 then tracks 1-4 go out on Ch.1, 5-8 on Ch.2, 9-12 on Ch.3, 13-16 on Ch.4 . So it your kit has the bass drum machine on track 1, that fixes the MIDI parameters (notes and CCs) for the machine, according to the details on page B-1 of the manual.

So if you're hoping to record the drum output to the MPC1000, whether from the Machindrum sequencer or live, the safe way is to do four tracks at a time to a MPC1000 Track and Mute the others. That data would end up on 4 MPC1000 tracks, which you would give the appropriate MIDI settings e.g. Out B, Ch. 1-4.

But it you receiving absolutely no MIDI data at the MPC1000, I can't explain that... do you have a MIDI analyzer program on a PC or Mac, to see exactly what the Machinedrum is sending out?

You might be better off taking advantage of the Machinedrum's own sequencer, and just sync the two together by MIDI clock - you have two powerful machines there, each is specialized to do its own thing best. (IMHO, of course.)


* http://www.machinedrum.com/files/Elektr ... al_112.pdf

By balil2 Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:08 pm
stereoroid wrote:
My understanding is that whatever the MPC1000 receives first goes through the Active Track Receive filter (which looks right), then is stripped of its channel information and routed to the selected Track for recording and routing (to the selected sample Program, or to MIDI out via Soft Thru)

So it can receive incoming MIDI on multiple channels, but the sequencer can't record multiple channels. The MIDI would get mixed up and sent to a single sequencer channel, the one you've selected on the Main page

Allright, but then whats the point of OMNI mode in the MIDI implementation of the MPC? On page 46 and 47 of the MPC manual is states:

"Select the Soft thru field and select OFF.
The soft thru field determines how to output the incoming MIDI signal.
You can select the following options:
OFF The MPC1000 will not output the incoming MIDI signal.
AS TRACK The MPC1000 refers to the MIDI channel setting of the sequence’s track. The channel
information of the incoming MIDI signal will be replaced with the MIDI channel set in the track.
-46-
OMNI- A The MPC1000 will output the incoming MIDI data as it is from MIDI OUT A.
OMNI- B The MPC1000 will output the incoming MIDI data as it is from MIDI OUT B.
OMNI- AB The MPC1000 will output the incoming MIDI data as it is from both MIDI OUT A and B.


I'm not sure what AS IT IS is supposed to mean then, if it doesn't mean that it ouputs the MIDI information, note data, CC#'s AND channel information. Otherwise, according to what you said, what's the different between SOFT THRU: as track, and SOFT THRU: OMNI A/B? If OMNI mode does not output the channel info as it was sent into the MPC, then there is no difference, as far as I can see, that has a practicle, audible, difference.

I've been looking at the Machinedrum manual * ... the architecture is a little confusing, eh? It looks to me like
a) You assign a Machine (sound) to one of the 16 tracks (slots) in a Kit.
b) That Kit maps directly to the 16 sequencer tracks.
c) The MIDI channel assignment for the Kit/Track is semi-fixed: you can change the base channel only.
d) If the base channel = 1 then tracks 1-4 go out on Ch.1, 5-8 on Ch.2, 9-12 on Ch.3, 13-16 on Ch.4 . So it your kit has the bass drum machine on track 1, that fixes the MIDI parameters (notes and CCs) for the machine, according to the details on page B-1 of the manual.


Yes, it's a little confusing. Apparently, because each drum sound can have up to 24 parameters that can be adjusted and modulated, the Machinedrum would have run out of CC#'s if they didn't use four MIDI channels

So if you're hoping to record the drum output to the MPC1000, whether from the Machindrum sequencer or live, the safe way is to do four tracks at a time to a MPC1000 Track and Mute the others. That data would end up on 4 MPC1000 tracks, which you would give the appropriate MIDI settings e.g. Out B, Ch. 1-4.

But it you receiving absolutely no MIDI data at the MPC1000, I can't explain that... do you have a MIDI analyzer program on a PC or Mac, to see exactly what the Machinedrum is sending out?


I have a Mac with OS X 10.2.8 - do y ou know of a midi analyzer program?

You might be better off taking advantage of the Machinedrum's own sequencer, and just sync the two together by MIDI clock - you have two powerful machines there, each is specialized to do its own thing best. (IMHO, of course.)


Perhaps you're right. But then I encounter another problem - when the MPC and MD are connected, I cannot input record into the MD! Only step record! When I try to do the two together, the MD doubles up notes and the timing is all messed up!

Thanks for your time Steroid, I really appreciate it. Much Respect!!!

Balil[/b]

By balil2 Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:23 pm
Allright, I kind of figured it out - I have to set up four tracks to record the CC changes. But what I don't get is why I don't have to setup four tracks to record the drums - they record fine on 1 track, which corresponds to 1 MIDI channel?
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By stereoroid Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:23 pm
balil2 wrote:Allright, I kind of figured it out - I have to set up four tracks to record the CC changes. But what I don't get is why I don't have to setup four tracks to record the drums - they record fine on 1 track, which corresponds to 1 MIDI channel?


It just seems that way to me based on the Machinedrum manual.
For example, if you tweaked the Resonance on Track 1 and Track 5 at the same time, and recorded the CCs to the sequencer in one go, I think they would get mixed up. On playback, they would all go to the one Track via the one MIDI channel you selected for that Track. I didn't say the recording would actually fail.

The Soft Thru settings are a separate question - they control how MIDI coming in is sent back out again if you want that. "As Is" means that it's receiving all the channels and sending them to the Outs without changing them. I didn't say they're getting mixed up at that point, your question was about Recording them to the Sequencer, which is recording one track at a time, and that's where any mixup would happen.

I think. Remember, I don't have a Machinedrum or equivalent, I'm trying to visualize the situation in the abstract..!

I'm a fan of MIDI-OX for the PC, but when it comes to the Mac, I think there has been mention of some on the forums, try searching? Otherwise, http://www.sharewaremusicmachine.com/ or Google would be more help than I could be here...!
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By stereoroid Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:50 pm
balil2 wrote:Perhaps you're right. But then I encounter another problem - when the MPC and MD are connected, I cannot input record into the MD! Only step record! When I try to do the two together, the MD doubles up notes and the timing is all messed up!

Balil[/b]


Oops - I can't see a Local Off setting for the Machinedrum in the manual, so I think you will need to turn off Soft Thru on the MPC1000 for that MIDI channel at least. The MD is receiving the notes you hit twice: directly from the front panel, and coming back in the MIDI IN.

Also: have you set up the MD for clock sync? If the MPC1000 is the master clock, and you hit record on the MD, it will sit and wait for a clock from the MPC1000...

By mpc3000 Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:34 am
The MPC1000 will not redirect incoming midi signals to separate tracks. It will send incoming midi data to the visible track on the main screen.

The MPC3000, MPC2000 and MPC2000XL can record to separate tracks under REC16 function. The MPC2000XL is the best since it allows you to direct assign incoming midi channels to particular tracks in addition to the REC16.

By balil2 Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:03 am
mpc3000 wrote:The MPC1000 will not redirect incoming midi signals to separate tracks. It will send incoming midi data to the visible track on the main screen.

The MPC3000, MPC2000 and MPC2000XL can record to separate tracks under REC16 function. The MPC2000XL is the best since it allows you to direct assign incoming midi channels to particular tracks in addition to the REC16.


Well, that is one difference between the 1000 and the 2000xl that I didn't notice - damn.

By karlalfred Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:55 pm
Elektron have updated the operatingsystem of the Machinedrum to 1.19,
syncing to other synths seem to have been improved.
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