sequencer ppqn

Hi, I was wondering feeling any problem when it comes to sequencing about the fact that the mpc sequencer has a ppq clock of 96? comparing to other sampler+drum machine, ie. Asr-X Pro.. or sequencers like yamaha qy70?
is 96 enough?

Appreciated.
Thank you.

zi

For me it is enough. If you think it is not enough, you can always double the tempo

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/5821/midi.html

or

http://midistudio.com/Management/R-Finley/q&a.htm

or

http://www.scottandtammy.com/Easy_MIDI_Guide/
Pulse Per Quarter Note (PPQN)
Pulse Per Quarter Note is used to describe the finest time resolution of a sequencer. For example, if the sequencer's resolution is one (1) PPQN, then the smallest note value that can be recorded is a quarter note. Most hardware sequencers have a PPQN of ninety-six (96) PPQN. At 120 beats per minute, a dance tempo, that is 192 pulses per second, or one pulse every five milliseconds (5ms). To put this in perspective, the human ear cannot distinguish two individual sounds unless they are separated by approximately twelve to fifteen milliseconds, or more.

hmm.. cause I have a sequencer right now.. the yamaha qy70.. my only beef is that it doesn't have a backlight.. which is extremely annoying. And it does it at 480ppq.
so if that is the case, I might as well get a rackmount sampler or something of sort.

any thoughts?

zi
ps:thanks for the reply btw.

"any thoughts? "

Yeah, when it comes to midi, pretty much anything over 96 ppqn is called marketing.

Got a qy-70 too...I like the seq editing that can thin out control change messeges, after touch, yada yada...but with only 8 chans in pattern mode, it's limited.

mpc3000 wrote:"any thoughts? "

Yeah, when it comes to midi, pretty much anything over 96 ppqn is called marketing.

96ppqn is not impressive.

so why does the MPC 4000 have 480 then???

is it because Akai thought they would sell more units?

NO.

its because more ppqn offers much better accuracy when hits or events are recorded in real time, which is a real drummers dream when using a drum machine.

Yes, you can argue that its playback (if high ppqn) timing may not live up to its hype.

But, with software apps like logic audio 6 platinum for instance (which i also use), which has 960ppqn...you can actually bounce drum patterns (be it 1 bar or 100 bars) OFFLINE.

This effectively means that the timing iregularity of such high ppqn resolutions like 960ppqn is actually very reliable and accurate with technology that renders the 'finished high resolution pattern' in .Wav (or other) in Non-realtime.

so Mr 3000, 96 may be OK for your average hip hop beat maker like me...but for a real trained drummer it could be an outright NO.

before you start your so called b***S**t expertise...

Applications like Logic Audio, Cubase SX, etc can use their own Native Software Samplers like EXS24, Halion, etc, for drum pattern sequences...

and these powerful soft samplers are Not entirely dependent on Midi.

Yes, you can trigger them via midi, but then you can also Draw drum events into powerful matrix editors too.

so therefore Midi issues are non existent for a studio based user.

for a real drummer, well 960 has plenty to offer, especially if they plan not to quantize...but instead choose to make minor adjustments in the events list.

I'd say those programs use midi even for events drawn in their own sequencers. Why make 2 sequencers then port one to midi when you can just do one?

Roop, how much of a difference in all that "glorified" resolution do you think your ears will actually be able differentiate between the next ppqn event. The human ear can recognize only so much resolution. Anything above that IS just marketing like 3k said cause even if you place an event at the very next event your ears will not be able to tell whether it was moved one step ahead/back or not, no matter what "real drummer" you have listening to it.

http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tutr/seqtime.htm
Timing Accuracy
A high resolution is a must for sequencing a human-sounding performance. So, the higher PPQN number means "better"? Not necessarily. A high resolution is good only when the sequencer can maintain and use such a steady and fast clock rate. It should be noted that it takes a finite amount of time for two midi events to be transmitted at MIDI baud rate. A clock resolution that allows two notes to be spaced at times less than the amount of time required to send them out the midi port is useless. Some sequencer programs boast resolutions of 480 PPQN or more. Are these resolutions useful? Yes, but not in a musical sense. They are only useful for hooking impressionable software buyers like Roop. No disrespect or nothing like that, just letting you know that your ears aren't robotic and can't hear everything that your sequencer boasts it can do.

elmacaco wrote:I'd say those programs use midi even for events drawn in their own sequencers. Why make 2 sequencers then port one to midi when you can just do one?

where did u get 2 sequencers from.

the Exs24 and Halion, etc, are not sequencers.

samples are played back via an internal audio routing fed thru to the sequencer.

effectively, the host sequencer like logic acts as a sample player streaming samples from harddisc.

if you think you know better, then go ahead and speak to Emagic...and mention midi in relation to the Exs24 software sampler...they will laugh at you.

why do u think many have moved on to soft sequencers with soft samplers, and even soft synths???

to eliminate midi, after the events are laid...which means you can fix ure timing at a very ppqn, and then playback the sequencer with midi out the question.

this is only true, with Soft Synths/Samplers.

with hardware midi gear, the 960ppqn in the soft sequencer will still water 96ppqn down all over.

do not forget (i have an mpc1000 too, i love it), but for events fine tuning...it does not touch logic audio.

logic has 960ppqn / sample accurate timing
virtual delay system (back and forth to correct or create a unique timing)
audio to midi groove template / midi to midi groove template
1/4, 1/8th, 1/16th, 1/16th triplet, 1/32, 1/64, 96, 192.
OFF LINE AUDIO BOUNCE = no drum delays.
theres lots...

Lampdog wrote:Roop, how much of a difference in all that "glorified" resolution do you think your ears will actually be able differentiate between the next ppqn event. The human ear can recognize only so much resolution. Anything above that IS just marketing like 3k said cause even if you place an event at the very next event your ears will not be able to tell whether it was moved one step ahead/back or not, no matter what "real drummer" you have listening to it.

http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tutr/seqtime.htm
Timing Accuracy
A high resolution is a must for sequencing a human-sounding performance. So, the higher PPQN number means "better"? Not necessarily. A high resolution is good only when the sequencer can maintain and use such a steady and fast clock rate. It should be noted that it takes a finite amount of time for two midi events to be transmitted at MIDI baud rate. A clock resolution that allows two notes to be spaced at times less than the amount of time required to send them out the midi port is useless. Some sequencer programs boast resolutions of 480 PPQN or more. Are these resolutions useful? Yes, but not in a musical sense. They are only useful for hooking impressionable software buyers like Roop. No disrespect or nothing like that, just letting you know that your ears aren't robotic and can't hear everything that your sequencer boasts it can do.

i see what ure saying lamp, but one not only hears something, but feels it too.

drum timing also refered to as Groove Timing is a black art...which ime sure you may know...

if not then now u do.

the feel of a drum pattern comes from the timing decision one makes.

higher ppqn allows this notion of feel, which one can naturally recognize.

Dj's do it all the time. if a new tune is out by neptunes for instance, one looks forward to thier new box of tricks...and that makes all the difference.

f**k the hearing part.

its like the myth of the MPC.

some say it has a groove to it, some don't feel it at all, some don't care.

the mpc seq design is based on the decisions Roger Linn had made when designing the thing...hence its perceived feel.

this also has a lot to do with Psychoacoustics...but lets no go there.

some don't give a s**t.

but i certainly notice things like this...call me weird...but its true...lol.

i have many Dj freinds who know a nice beat when they hear one...

and most of these beats are full of wonders.

quantizing, swing, delay, pre delay, perfect timmed samples, eq'ing, panning, leveling, ghost hits, etc.

ive course then its down to which sequencer you have too.

Oh, so the audio is shifted to the ppqn you determine? Ok.

I'd like to hear an audio file of a beat before and after this high ppqn shifting and see who hears the difference.

The shift should be small enough that it can't be done on 96ppqn.

I know the black art and psychoacoustics you speak of. What I'm saying is that you cannot tell the difference between certain high resolution events when they are so close together, no matter what res the sequencer boasts. Natural hearing nah mean? Feeling, I don't think it's humanly possible to actually play/feel that close of a resolution either..