MPC 2500 SE FO / MPC 5000 FO

ArKyve-31 wrote:

otobot wrote:

ArKyve-31 wrote:the MPC 5k doesn't even have Global program edit.......To the dude that first posed the question, If the screen and control's is what you want **** em both and get a 4k, no one here can state an argument over the 4k being the highest performing Mpc of the series, has the ability of a jj 25, the screen of a 5, built sturdy as hell, and sounds extremely better than both. The only thing it can't do is record audio to tracks....but most people have daws for that anyways. I promise you, buying a 5k will be a gamble.

I didn't want to post in this thread for obvious reasons, but there's some misinformation in that above post.


And whether the 4K sounds extremely better than the newer 16 bit MPCs is arguable. Just because it has 24 bit convertors doesn't mean those sound necessarily better than 6 years newer and better engineered 16 bit convertors and their analog stages. Just take a look at the 16 bit Apogee Mini-Me. There are many opinions on sound quality differences between convertors and it seems to be a highly subjective matter, but there are many users who had both the 4K and the 5K that support the notion that the 5K sounds improved upon the 4K.

There's more the 4K is lacking compared to the 5K: aside from 8 track HD recording, the 5K has the (actually really good sounding) synth, a flexible arpeggiator, fully expanded connectivity by default, Continuous Sample Tracks, Pad Mute Groups, strength and Window parameters in Timing Correct, no need to stop the sequencer for on the fly edits and more.
Sure there's stuff the 4K has that I wish the 5K featured too: 512 MB max memory and SMPTE In/Out.

Its not that the 4k can do 24bit or 16bit, its the type of a/d converters akai used before they were bought out by numark. In my opinion the 4k,2k's, 3's and 60's all sound better due to the quality of converters used. Moreover, I don't and wouldn't use a 8 track hd recorder, its what my DAW is for, and you don't need to stop the sequencer in the 4k to edit programs, multi's or samples, all can be done while the sequence is playing. I've seen too many 5k's crash or break within months of being unboxed to be able to ever suggest one to a first time mpc user. The bottom line, the jj 25 is a more stable platform and machine at this time.

Haha, way to go on the selective quoting and leaving away the part where I debunked your claim the 5K didn't have global program edit.
Are you really comparing the 4K's convertors' sound to the classic sound of the 3K and 60? I thought everyone knew Akai wasn't going for those vintage convertors when they engineered "the Z4 among the MPC line" with more the HiFi kinda convertors.
It's much more accurate to compare the 4K and 5K soundwise because - without any judgement if that's better or worse - both are more or less "modern" sounding as compared to the vintage 3K and 60.
The part about needing to stop the 4K's sequencer I'm honestly not sure of, but there was this circumstance where the 5K's seqeuncer has definitely the edge over the 4K in live scenarios and doesn't need to be stopped.
And what about the other improvements of the 5K I listed? I'm not bashing the 4K by any means, it's a great MPC, just as I think the 5K is a really great MPC, but I can't read those uninformed opinions about the 5K anymore.

We are comparing feature for feature.. and JJ must have implemented the ability for "pseudo HD recording" into JJOS because the 5K had it. People are constantly looking for that all-in-one-machine even if you say YOU wouldn't use it if the 4K had a HD recording option (which I honestly don't believe.. I have PT 9, Samplitude 11, Studio One, Energy XT2, etc. and still use the HD recording option in the 5K because it's immediate and I don't need to fire up the DAW).
How many 5K's did you personally see crash and break within months? To me your knowledge about the 5K and it's issues seems to be based on the pre-OS2.0 (Just Blaze) and the unreflected post-OS2.0 ("yo mang, look, JB ripped the 5K a new one") bashing people haven't come over, going by your claim the 5K had no global program edit mode.

The bottom line, a 2k5 with JJOS more stable?? 5K, 1 K, 2k5 and even 500 are technically and mechanically from the same line, so why should a 2k5 be more stable. Ah, you mean the OS? The 5000's OS 2.0 is as stable as stable can be.. for me 100% stable. You should check your info, the 5K isn't in the state Just Blaze reviewed it in anymore. Not even close.
Furthermore all the MPC's had their OS issues when they were introduced to the market. Yes, even the 4K! People seem to have hated it with a passion when it dropped.

Knowing what I know I couldn't recommend an inferiour MPC to a fella who is in the market for one and needs to decide on which one to get (assuming from the recent trends on ebay that both are actually roughly the same price).

Well said. Funny thing is the people who are trashing the 5000 don't even own one. Every day there seem to be a 5000' screen smoking

It's human that people associate/remember the negative things of a product easier than the positive. Ad to the fact users don't bother to post their positive experience with 5000. People need to be salty to bother to post something just to ventilate.

I love my 5000...even with it's quirks. I don't know the 60,3 or 4000 so I don't talk trash about them. So should you!

Haha, way to go on the selective quoting and leaving away the part where I debunked your claim the 5K didn't have global program edit.

I do that so, cause I hate when cats triple quote and you gotta scroll forever just read a response

Are you really comparing the 4K's convertors' sound to the classic sound of the 3K and 60? I thought everyone knew Akai wasn't going for those vintage convertors when they engineered "the Z4 among the MPC line" with more the HiFi kinda convertors.

Never compared the 4k convertors sounds to the 3k or 60, Just said they were better quality, akai owned them then, not numark. Numark is uses cheaper parts in all product lines.

The part about needing to stop the 4K's sequencer I'm honestly not sure of, but there was this circumstance where the 5K's seqeuncer has definitely the edge over the 4K in live scenarios and doesn't need to be stopped.

How so, you can monitor the sequence if you adjust your setting before hand in the program and sample edit screens so that you can adjust both in realtime while the sequencer is playing with no problems.

People are constantly looking for that all-in-one-machine even if you say YOU wouldn't use it if the 4K had a HD recording option (which I honestly don't believe..

Believe what you want, My daw runs anytime the mpc is one for midi purposes and my soundcard has 8 individual tracks in, why would I?

but I can't read those uninformed opinions about the 5K anymore.

How many 5K's did you personally see crash and break within months? To me your knowledge about the 5K and it's issues seems to be based on the pre-OS2.0 (Just Blaze) and the unreflected post-OS2.0 ("yo mang, look, JB ripped the 5K a new one") bashing people haven't come over, going by your claim the 5K had no global program edit mode.

I have had more 5k's in my possession than both you and COin OP combined, I stand corrected on Global program edit, but never got that far with the machines because my job was to test and make sure they were crashed before we sent them back to akai. We opened 6 yes the first 6 outta the box and hard drive failed within in minutes of running through the features....Not a good look.

I've beat the hell outta several 25's JJ and no JJ and the same with 1k's stock os and with jj and never ran into a single problem other than my first 1k's pads dying. We were sending back at least 20 5k's a quarter to akai....they're more stable, Oh and COIN OP, I saw were you said the screen smoking was one time thing in another thread. I've seen that with my own eyes on more than one occasion. I'm glad you fellas got 5's that work, but there are less of you than should be. I'm sure one day the 5 will be a beast, but its not proven yet, and the jj 25 is. I have 4k now, but there was no way in hell I was buying one before all the kinks were worked out, thats just senseless. Much like most new technology, INCLUDING Akai/Numark its best to buy after its been on the market long enough for all bugs to be fixed and the original users get wear on their gear to see how it will really hold up and if its worth it.

ArKyve-31 wrote:

Haha, way to go on the selective quoting and leaving away the part where I debunked your claim the 5K didn't have global program edit.

I do that so, cause I hate when cats triple quote and you gotta scroll forever just read a response

Aw c'mon, you selectively just left that one sentence out you didn't like from a block of text

ArKyve-31 wrote:

Are you really comparing the 4K's convertors' sound to the classic sound of the 3K and 60? I thought everyone knew Akai wasn't going for those vintage convertors when they engineered "the Z4 among the MPC line" with more the HiFi kinda convertors.

Never compared the 4k convertors sounds to the 3k or 60, Just said they were better quality, akai owned them then, not numark. Numark is uses cheaper parts in all product lines.

Better quality? Very subjective assessment you make.. considering that you haven't compared them much and convertor chips generally have so much improved in the last 9 years.

ArKyve-31 wrote:

The part about needing to stop the 4K's sequencer I'm honestly not sure of, but there was this circumstance where the 5K's seqeuncer has definitely the edge over the 4K in live scenarios and doesn't need to be stopped.

How so, you can monitor the sequence if you adjust your setting before hand in the program and sample edit screens so that you can adjust both in realtime while the sequencer is playing with no problems.

Like I said honestly I can't put it together and remeber the exact circumstance right now. The newer "Nukai" MPC's especially the 5K brought new sequencing capabilities to the table. However there are bits in the 4Ks OS that I'd really like to have in the 5K like the qlink step modulator thing.

ArKyve-31 wrote:

People are constantly looking for that all-in-one-machine even if you say YOU wouldn't use it if the 4K had a HD recording option (which I honestly don't believe..

Believe what you want, My daw runs anytime the mpc is one for midi purposes and my soundcard has 8 individual tracks in, why would I?

Imagine if the 4K had the HD recording capabilities and the 5K not. That's a big plus for a feature even if YOU don't use it. The synth, arp, fully expanded connectivity by default, Continuous Sample Tracks, Pad Mute Groups, strength and Window parameters in Timing Correct and other improvements to sequencing too.

but I can't read those uninformed opinions about the 5K anymore.

Yeah, true.

ArKyve-31 wrote:

How many 5K's did you personally see crash and break within months? To me your knowledge about the 5K and it's issues seems to be based on the pre-OS2.0 (Just Blaze) and the unreflected post-OS2.0 ("yo mang, look, JB ripped the 5K a new one") bashing people haven't come over, going by your claim the 5K had no global program edit mode.

I have had more 5k's in my possession than both you and COin OP combined, I stand corrected on Global program edit, but never got that far with the machines because my job was to test and make sure they were crashed before we sent them back to akai. We opened 6 yes the first 6 outta the box and hard drive failed within in minutes of running through the features....Not a good look.

I've beat the hell outta several 25's JJ and no JJ and the same with 1k's stock os and with jj and never ran into a single problem other than my first 1k's pads dying. We were sending back at least 20 5k's a quarter to akai....they're more stable, Oh and COIN OP, I saw were you said the screen smoking was one time thing in another thread. I've seen that with my own eyes on more than one occasion. I'm glad you fellas got 5's that work, but there are less of you than should be. I'm sure one day the 5 will be a beast, but its not proven yet, and the jj 25 is. I have 4k now, but there was no way in hell I was buying one before all the kinks were worked out, thats just senseless. Much like most new technology, INCLUDING Akai/Numark its best to buy after its been on the market long enough for all bugs to be fixed and the original users get wear on their gear to see how it will really hold up and if its worth it.

Dunno man, seems you like exaggerating much. There surely were a couple of lemons made. In each product line of each manufacturer.
I take it you work/worked at a place like guitar center or a distributor etc.? How many times did you see the smoking screen?

That guy Ritec from the YT video seems to have had a power surge that fvcked with his 5K's display prior to recording that smoking screen.. you can read that up at gearslutz: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6883804-post127.html
Btw. he also had reported the power surge here at mpc-forums if I remember corectly. A short while later he comes up with the smoking screen vid. Sounds fishy to me.

The 5K already is a beast. But sure, too many lemons could overshadow that fact. How was the lemon/good one ratio with the 4K when it was released?
Knock on wood, my 5K is solid.

But in regards to the OS side, 99% of the badmouthing is based on the Just Blaze rant which he pulled off of his blog but the debris, copies on other blogs are still used by uninformed peeps to diss the 5K as if OS 2.0 never happened.
Everything Just Blaze had to criticize about the 5K was fixed more than 2 and a half years ago. I repeat, EVERYTHING.

Funny, even you who had like hundreds of 5Ks under your fingers and didn't know that global program edit (Multi Pad Edit) was introduced a long long time ago.

Btw. aside from that in the 5K OS 2.0

you can tune an entire program at once
you can preview synth patches
every time you go to assign a sample to a pad, it starts at at the last assigned sample in RAM
you can import older S1000, S3000, S5000/S6000, Z4/Z8, and MPC4000-format sample libraries including Keygroups
and create and have keygroup / multisample programs

Those are mostly fixes to points JB had to criticize. There are many more improvements in OS 2.

The 5K is a fully fledged sampler with all tricks, a dope sounding filter and modulation section, a great virtual analog synthesizer, arpeggiator, all triggered by an advanced sequencer combined with a hard disk recorder and an extensive connectivity all in one box I'd say.

well I think that is enough arguing... it's true 5k owners dont like it when other people say the machine has problems so how about helping people feel comfortable purchasing the 5k by making a guide to telling the lemons apart from the solid machines. How can a novice tell by looking at say, an ebay listing if a 5k is one of the good ones or one of the troubled crashing lemons or what have you? Lets hear the secrets from the lucky 5k pros here on the boards.

Not saying a guide of that nature will convince everyone to make the gamble instead of just grabbing the proven machine but still it may help some who want the extra bit of features.

A guide to tell the lemons apart from the solid machines? Dunno haven't seen any bad 5K's yet. I don't have any experience with 5K lemons..

But I'll start off with:

1. If you see your 5K's screen smoking, turn it off, don't ask it to "pass the kutchie on the left hand side"...
2. Look at the seller's ebay history.
3. Ask the seller if the unit has problems.
4. Ask why he's selling.
5. Ask for more pictures.
6. Collect and test drive the unit at the seller's place.
.
.
.

2. to 6. are common sense for any expensive ebay transaction and apply for 3K's, 60's, 500's, 2k5's and 4K's too.

agreed^ but i guess first we would need to know what exact component causes the lemons to act up (maybe faulty parts) so that we would know what to look out for. it would be great if someone owned a lemon as well as a solid one to compare interiors.

Just by a new one..... unless your going for a classic MPC or SP there's no reason to buy a used one. Save some more money, be patient. That's what I did.

I never worry when messing with my 5000. When you by a used one add to that the negative stigma, you won't enjoy it!

If you do buy one new(offline/0nline) be sure the seller has a few in stock and the box is unopenend.

mr_debauch wrote:agreed^ but i guess first we would need to know what exact component causes the lemons to act up (maybe faulty parts) so that we would know what to look out for. it would be great if someone owned a lemon as well as a solid one to compare interiors.

Well I don't think it's easy to open up the machine at the seller's place.. and even if the seller would allow that, most likely there isn't one common component causing issues. Also it's a gamble with any used machine. I've read here at mpc-forums more than a few times that many of the used MPC's (all models) "have personality".

Best to order any expensive used electronic device from a seller who grants a return policy and/or warranty.

CoinOP! wrote:Just by a new one..... unless your going for a classic MPC or SP there's no reason to buy a used one. Save some more money, be patient. That's what I did.

I never worry when messing with my 5000. When you by a used one add to that the negative stigma, you won't enjoy it!

If you do buy one new(offline/0nline) be sure the seller has a few in stock and the box is unopenend.

New is always good, but there's a big reason to buy used: price.
You can get really good deals on 2nd hand 5K's in very good condition from professional seller's who have a return policy.

Browsing through some old threats Arkyve mentioned he returned about 7 pieces because of HD failure(FAT is not realy a reason to return a whole machine). Anyways, is this Akai's fault? In a way.. yes! But it's still 3rd party hardware. I changed mine with a SDD and I think it's pretty solid. You still can't push it(repeatadly press a certain button which causes the 5000 to crash which i can't remember).

my PS3slim kept bugging. I swapt the drive and now it's fine. I blame Sony, but deep in my hearth...... I can't.

So that's 7 less lemons. Next......

Huh, which repeated button press is that? Never had mine crash, maybe I should try to reproduce that...

An SSD will only be more silent because the bottleneck for disk IO isn't the speed of the default HDD but the bus speed inside the 5K. The sluggishness from time to time should be caused by CPU/RAM overhead. These MPC's ain't high power computers but hw/sw systems specialized for a certain conglomerate of tasks

otobot wrote:Huh, which repeated button press is that? Never had mine crash, maybe I should try to reproduce that...

An SSD will only be more silent because the bottleneck for disk IO isn't the speed of the default HDD but the bus speed inside the 5K. The sluggishness from time to time should be caused by CPU/RAM overhead. These MPC's ain't high power computers but hw/sw systems specialized for a certain conglomerate of tasks

As I mentioned in my thread when someone asked me if there was a speed difference. I wouldn't know/didn't think so, because I swapped it with the original asap and it's eide to sata and the firmware is not updated. Then again this dude posted a vid on YT about a 1 TB 7200rpm HD which was more responsive according to him.

I bought it for the silence and stability. Not speed. Also I assume it's more save when powering off(no moving parts).

CoinOP! wrote:As I mentioned in my thread when someone asked me if there was a speed difference. I wouldn't know/didn't think so, because I swapped it with the original asap and it's eide to sata and the firmware is not updated. Then again this dude posted a vid on YT about a 1 TB 7200rpm HD which was more responsive according to him.

I bought it for the silence and stability. Not speed. Also I assume it's more save when powering off(no moving parts).

Ah ok, I didn't want to put changing the HDD for an SSD down for I think it's perfectly reasonable for reducing the disk noise. Just a bit on the pricy side.
You're also right in regards to there being no moving parts.
I'm curious, how many seconds does your 5K take to boot up from pressing the power button to being on the main screen?
Also could you maybe point me to a thread where the crash is decribed that's caused by pressing a certain switch multiple times?
Thanks!

otobot wrote:A guide to tell the lemons apart from the solid machines? Dunno haven't seen any bad 5K's yet. I don't have any experience with 5K lemons..

So you saying 5k is completely problem free and all them posts in 5k section is all bullshit ? That's really odd cuz even the 2500 got problems. Im finding it hard to believe 5k is the first perfect mpc from fukai.

CoinOP! wrote:I love my 5000..

alright kid, finish makin that noise nobody care to hear and rub one off on your 5k already

Posted by J26 in the 5000 section;

"MPC 5000 Tap Tempo/Audition Bug

Hi there good ol 5k owners, i had a few crashes and lost some valuable work this week thanks to the following bug:

The 5k freezes when you hit Tap Tempo repeatedly (trying to track down a loop's bpm) while auditioning a sample from the internal HD in the Disk/Load/Listen menu. Steps to be taken:

1. Go to Disk Mode
2. Hit the LOAD button
3. Go to a sample with groove elements on the 5k's internal HD
4.Push and hold the PLAY button, while doing this...tap along the rhythm with Tap Tempo a few bars et voila....it crashes.

The Tap Tempo button keeps on lighting up very nervously and the screen freezes."


Haven't reproduced it myself.....