How much can be done with the sequencer running?

I'm looking for some sort of device that can I can record and play back in real time. Well that sounds rather vague, what I mean is this:

While jamming I want to have the sequencer running, playing something, then i want to be able to hit the record button, record 4 bars, have it loop that, record 4 bars on another MIDI channel, while the first one is playing back, then after a while go to another sequence, this time record 8 bars, loop that, record 8 bars on another MIDI channel etc etc. All while the sequencer is running. Then preferebly make a song, and have it play it back, all while the machine is running.

Can an MPC do that? I've searched various tutorials and online forums but they all seem to be focused either on the sampling aspect (which might be interesting, but that's not what I'm primarily looking for), or to put together 'beats'. In all cases it's a question of 'record this track, then we press stop, now we name it, now let's reecord the next track' etc.

I've looked in the online manual pdfs to without finding any real answers.

So, the question goes out, would an MPC (I'm thinking of one of the smaller ones, the 500 or 1000) be able to do what I want according to the description above? Or rather, given the generally positive response to these machines, I should ask, what can I not do with the sequencer running?

Sounds like you looking for a loop station. A MPC can do those things but not in real time.

MPC1000 (or 2500) with newest JJ OS-XL has some basic looping capabilities. For the kind of workflow you described, however, you'd need a dedicated looper AND the MPC. I've considered a Boss RC-50 myself, but that kind of extensive looping is a bit more than I need.

Record while playing sequence can be done with MPC-4000 and Roland MV8000/8800.

Are you REALLY talking about MIDI?

If it's just MIDI you are talking about then, yes, that is what an MPC is designed for.

This assumes you know what midi is, you have external midi gear, and you know how to use it.

In regards to MIDI, the MPC functions just like an 'audio looper', only with much more features. Real time quantise, note repeat, add/remove notes.

What you CANNOT DO while the sequencer is running is basically sampling and organisation things, like naming tracks.

Using MIDI gear (or internal, already sampled sounds), you can hit play, hit overdub at any point, add notes in real time, change tracks, add more notes, then go back and mute / unmute these tracks.

This is primarily what an MPC was designed for, and there is no better sequencer out there for doing this exact thing.

As for playing it all back exactly how you want later, you can create different sequences/variations and then string those together in song mode. What I do though is just play it back live every time.

Get on YouTube and look up Anchorsong, he is using an MPC 2000xl with an external midi keyboard and internal samples to do what you are talking about.

NOTE: This is all MIDI data, he is not recording audio like a looper. He is recording and playing back MIDI data which is triggering the sounds. Many people don't understand this so forgive me for repeating it over and over.

And yes a 1000 or 500 would be perfect for this. MIDI capabilities across MPCs is more standard than sampling features...for the most part they are all very good midi processors, the sampling just gets more powerful as you spend more money. I don't know about the 500 though, bear in mind it is the cheapest of the bunch so it might have much more limited midi /sequencer functionality (you should look these up, because I don't know the details).

so if you are talking about using the mpc solely as a sequencer it is going to be perfect for this and probably even surprise you with how good the sequencer is.

Oh, I thought he / she was asking about recording sound (not MIDI signal) while sequencer is playing.

nogginj wrote:Are you REALLY talking about MIDI?

If it's just MIDI you are talking about then, yes, that is what an MPC is designed for.

This assumes you know what midi is, you have external midi gear, and you know how to use it.

Check, check and check. It was the MIDI functions I was talking about, not really interested in the sampling bit at this point.

(I would even go so far as to say I know MIDI inside out, I was in my late teens when MIDI came out in 1983, was heavily into writing MIDI software for home computers in those days, even built a polyphonic synthesizer with MIDI a couple of years later ... all history now ... but yes, I could probably recite the MIDI protocol even if you woke me up at 2 AM. These days though, programming is my day job, so I'd rather spend my free time making music rather than sitting at a computer screen writing sequencing software).

In regards to MIDI, the MPC functions just like an 'audio looper', only with much more features. Real time quantise, note repeat, add/remove notes.

What you CANNOT DO while the sequencer is running is basically sampling and organisation things, like naming tracks.

How about things like creating a song, or converting a song to a sequence?

Using MIDI gear (or internal, already sampled sounds), you can hit play, hit overdub at any point, add notes in real time, change tracks, add more notes, then go back and mute / unmute these tracks.

This is primarily what an MPC was designed for, and there is no better sequencer out there for doing this exact thing.

Great!

As for playing it all back exactly how you want later, you can create different sequences/variations and then string those together in song mode. What I do though is just play it back live every time.

So you mean you basically just switch manually between sequences while playing back, rather than creating a song?

Get on YouTube and look up Anchorsong, he is using an MPC 2000xl with an external midi keyboard and internal samples to do what you are talking about.

Thanks for the pointer. I've been searching on Youtube, but most videos are about making beats with drum samples.

NOTE: This is all MIDI data, he is not recording audio like a looper. He is recording and playing back MIDI data which is triggering the sounds. Many people don't understand this so forgive me for repeating it over and over.

No problem. Ever since the start of MIDI it seems to have been hard to convince people what the difference is between MIDI and audio. (How hard can it be? Really? It's like the difference between a script and a film, quite obvious really. Although I guess these days, PC-based DAWs with sequencing capabilites really blur the issue)

And yes a 1000 or 500 would be perfect for this. MIDI capabilities across MPCs is more standard than sampling features...for the most part they are all very good midi processors, the sampling just gets more powerful as you spend more money. I don't know about the 500 though, bear in mind it is the cheapest of the bunch so it might have much more limited midi /sequencer functionality (you should look these up, because I don't know the details).

I read in another forum that there was some limitation on the 500 regarding recording track mutes as part of a song. Guess it's in the manual too, but probably not entirely obvious unless you really take the time to read it through.

I'd probably gladly settle for an ASQ-10 but they seem rather rare and pricey and of course the memory card and interfacing is better on the modern machines rather than 3.5" floppies. (Not that I mind old hardware, I still use 2.8" QD's in my sampler and love it...)

The 1000 looks like quite the bang for the buck, it's got two MIDI ins so I can sync it to an external device and have my MIDI synth plugged into the other input without having to use an external midi merge device.

so if you are talking about using the mpc solely as a sequencer it is going to be perfect for this and probably even surprise you with how good the sequencer is.

Up till now my favorite sequencer has been the Alesis MMT-8 which has a lot of good points, but of course is not too good at doing everything in real time, it's obviously not intended for that. Other than that and the lack of step mode recording it's a great piece of kit.

Ok great you know what you are talking about.

The Alesis MMT-8 comes close but the MPC is so much more.

Those 8 track mute buttons on the MMT? The MPC has 64 per sequence. You mute these via a track mute screen.

As for recording said mutes...haha that's what I was planning on using my mmt-8 for ;]. I'm not sure which MPCs allow you to record your track muting live. I have a 2kxl and it does not offer that feature. This is why I never use song mode...because I basically load up a huge meta-sequence, then play the mutes. Think about it this way, if you've got just one track running, there is no limit to how much you can alter it by playing the track mute. So yes when I play live I manually load up seqs (using the pads) and then play the track mutes (using the pads).

Song mode is dead simple. Insert sequence, loop however many times, insert new seq, on and on....the cool thing is you can then convert this song back to a sequence...this is what I do so I just stay in the MAIN mpc environment which is the seq editor. Though honestly, I rarely use song mode, only to develop longer chains of seq variations that I will not play via track mute because I'm playing guitar or something. You can NOT edit a song while the seq is running, IN MY MPC. Though if you could record track mutes, this might be a non-issue. You CAN record track volume changes, so you could probably hack something together to pseudo-record track mutes even on my old mpc.
Does anyone else know an mpc which can record the track mutes? It's definitely not a deal breaker for me, as I record my track mutes to tape ;].

The 1000 is probably the most economical mpc in terms of features / price. However take note again, the sequencing was basically done right the first time, and it's the sampling / fx that keeps getting beefed up with each new release. Yes the sequencer has had some very welcome improvements, but it is the real gold in these machines and even the old ones are seriously about the best midi seq money can buy. I wouldn't hold out for a ASQ-10 due to rareness, or a 60 / 3000 due to trendiness / high price (though many people do swear by the 'Linn' sequencer found in the 3000/60). You will probably be just fine with a MPC 2000 or later....and 2000's are probably the cheapest. The XL is a welcome upgrade to the 2000, but after that, sequencing improvements are slim. If you could find a 2kxl for cheap you would love it. A 1000 is very close to a 2000xl in terms of sequencing, a 2500 / 4000 / 5000 is probably overkill because again, the sampler is much more powerful.

But yea use it in conjunction with yer mmt-8 for the ultimate rig ;]. One difference between the mmt and the mpc is that the mmt's 8 tracks are all 16 channel...a track on an mpc is 1 channel that you select.

Oh and PS. if you are seriously ONLY storing sequences then you don't need a huge storage medium, but if you do want to just get rid of the floppy drive, there are many options...the HxC floppy Emulator on SD Card being the most fail-proof (though not fool-proof): viewtopic.php?f=11&t=142435

One more edit:
This is basically a promo for all the MPC live sequencing features...this guy Anchorsong runs through them all on a 2KXL - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXMJ49_MOEk

Wow, I was a bit surprised that you know MIDI protocol inside out, but yet you don't know what option you have for MIDI sequencing! (I'm not dissing you, simply surprised) There are simply so many options, you can even go for software route (most of DAW software, if not all, support MIDI, just get MIDI interface for PC or Mac)
Of course, MPCs are great too. MPC does have overdub function (even dedicated button!), unlike the Alesis MIDI sequencer!

Well, I guess I'm more the nerd than the one whose down at the music store checking out the new stuff. I've heard about the MPC's ever since the 60 but have never really thought about the sequencing options and realtime capabilities until the need started to arise lately. MMT-8's are available so cheap second hand (I've got two) that it really takes a real need for live sequencing to even think about going for an MPC in my opinion.

Yes, I know DAWs usually have sequencing options, but ever since a disastrous encounter with C-Lab Notator on the Atari ST 20 years ago (wow, 20 years...) I've stayed away from anything computer-based. I just hate the stuff. Some have recommended Ableton Live for what I'm after, I'm sure that's an option, but I really want a piece of hardware with buttons rather than software. For me music is all about physical manipulation and not something I like to do in an abstract sense. Downloaded the demo version of Reason once and had great fun for a while, but then realized that that form of music creation just doesn't cut it for me. PC's are ok for post processing though.

I've tried a couple of other hardware sequencers, have an old MSQ-700 too where you can't even switch sequences live (but I love the klunky computer type buttons, the general simplicy of the machine, and the step mode entry). Tried a Kawai something (can't remember its name, it had 32 tracks), but it was awkward to operate. Had an Electribe-A for a while, it was nice to a certain extent, but editing was a pain (which in turn created some nice sequences, sortof like the way you're not in complete control with a TB-303). More modern machines such as the MC-505 or RM-1x etc seem more geared to either some form of complete music production alternatively a very specific genre of music. I really just want the sequencer at this point.

Another option I found out about recently is the by now ten-year-old E-MU XL-7, which basically seems to be an MPC-like sequencer married with a Proteus sound module. Not really looking for another sound module, it's not really what I'm looking for, but it does like like it has more buttons and less menus than the average MPC, which would probably suit me.

Would you say the 2000 offers any significant improvement in the sequence area over the 1000, or is it older and hence a better deal if one can find it second hand, or something?

I actually use my MMT-8 one midi channel per track so I'm basically at the MPC level in that respect. I quickly run out of tracks when making drum patterns though (which is one of the reasons I got a second MMT-8).

I guess the one midi channel per track concept explains why there is no track merge on the MPC's (the way there is in the MMT-8)?

If by track merge you simply mean take one track and make it part of another track, the Mpc can totally do that, but yea, it's only one channel at that point.

Said it once, I'll say it again. The MPC's are the best midi sequencer you can get. I imagine the e-mu is cool, but I bet it makes up for in sound what it lacks in sequencing...I can't imagine it works better than an mpc.

Not really sure how comparable the 2000 and 1000 seq are...the 2000 is of course older, and the only real reason I hesitate to answer definitively is that I don't use a 2000...I'm on an XL. As I said, there are some nice improvements from the 2k to the 2kxl as far as the sequencer goes. Namely:
- XL can switch between sequences using the pads (just like the track mute/unmute screen)
- XL has improved multiple track recording by specifying which tracks to record and what channels for soft through
- You can now switch from REC/OVERDUB to PLAY and vice versa without having to stop the sequencer.

That last one I was unaware of and could be a deal breaker.

The difference between the sequencer section of the 2kxl and the 1k are not even that drastic....they are very, very similar. The sampler in the 1k is worlds above the xl though, in specs alone (not commenting on sampling workflow here ;]).

I think you'd be insanely happy with an xl or a 1k. The hands on ability and the workflow really push you to create in new ways....if you think of working with the MMt-8 as being a one-sided conversation where you basically tell it what to do, and then maybe discuss politely later, working with an MPC is a very involved and simultaneous conversation where you and the machine both have something to say.

You are obviously on the right track, I wouldn't get too hung up about which is better, 1k or 2kxl...see what you find used, and cheap enough so you don't have to worry about feeling bad if you don't like it. I promise though you will love it. It constantly reminds me how great MIDI actually is.

Interesting reading:
http://www.mpc2000xl.com/summary.htm - diff between 2k and 2kxl
http://www.mpc2000xl.com/MPCvsMPC.htm - 2kxl vs 3000

666 posts? I might retire this account.
Edit: naw i'll give it a little longer.
Thanks yall.

Hello everyone!

I see that the topic is old, but I've found really useful advice here in my research on the MPC sampler, so I hope I might get an answer.

I'm close to deciding to buy the MPC1000, and the option I'm considering comes with expanded memory of 128MB and a 512MB CompactFlash card. I've never had an MPC or anything similar, so my question is - is that enough memory? I would primarily use the MPC for live performances, where part of the song would presumably be sampled audio, and partly I would use the MPC as a MIDI brain sending information to my synth setup.

Thanks a lot!