complex drum grooves (attn b.durazzo)

so im trying to step my drum game up and add some new variety to my drums.

ive included a picture of my piano roll editor with a basic 2 bar 4 on the floor groove. i usally start with something similar to this that i use as a backbone for my beat while im arranging my samples into seperate parts of the song.

my problem is i usually always find my kicks and snares in the same place, even after i go back and add other elements (snare rolls, shakers, rides, ect.) to my drum tracks. i know almost everyone puts the snare in the same place every time, but i guess my problem is, sometimes i dont know where to put little short snares, and stuff to fill up the extra space in my beat.



in this image, my kick would be on the bottom, followed by my snare, my open hat, and my closed hats on the top.

i have my kicks highlighted in both images, in the first one, its just a normal 4 on the floor beat, and in the second one i moved my kick one space over so it creates a kind of pushing effect and catches the listener off gaurd, i think this has potential to create some kind of groove so my beats wont get so stagnant; but i dont really know how make it work right without sounding weird.

i know alot has to do with the sample, but could anyone shed some light for me, maybe link me up with some youtube clips of hip hop beats with more complex or even syncopated drum patterns.



i was trying to get my education on with this b. durazzo beat making video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGlYCU8jBLU

i really like the drums in b. durazzo's mpc video, they start at 1 minute in.
there is alot going on at once, even if upon first listen it doesnt sound like it.
i was trying to see if i could draw a similar pattern into logic and try and dissect them to no avail. i dont use toms usually so i was starting my sequence without the fill at the start.

dont worry b. durazzo, i wasnt trying to bite your drums, i was just trying to experiment around with new drum patterns and your video was the first one i stumbled upon with unique sounding drums.

any help or links to beats with more complex drum patterns would be great.

sometimes simplicity is the key...I dont think complexity is as important as variation of teh groove...I would start by listening to drum breaks, drummer has only two hands and two feet he can only get as complex as 4 limbs and speed allow him to

i feel you with the simplicity, but sometimes i feel like i only know how to do one groove, so im trying to branch out and do new stuff with my drums.

listening to breaks and loops is actually how i got that push on the second bar that i was trying to experiment around with. maybe i should listen to some more of them and try and copy thier groove to see how thier drums are placed. i think that would help me visualize new ways of making my own grooves.

i definitely wish that i was a drummer before hand, i can imagine those guys know 10fold more about programming drums than i did when i started making beats just because they used to play with sticks.

thanks for your reply konc3pt.

My 2¢: You could also watch some drum tutorials and learn the basic rudiments and how they move them around the set to create drum fills and variations. And I'm not sure if you're usin a midi controller or even tappin it out on your computer keyboard, but that could help. I've never been able to get a good believable rhythm by drawin beats into a grid. But that's just me.

i usually draw them in and use the humanize function in battery 3. but i also tap them out with my mpc sometimes too. i havent been doing it that way for about a year because i hadnt had an mpc for awhile. now that i have one again i am going to start doing that more often though.

i would like to learn how to finger drum better, i found this tutorial on youtube like you suggested and it is a very good beginners guide, i was just finger drumming along with this video for the last hour or so. i think it would be good for me to be able to read basic drum notation and learn how to finger drum along with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIZVdeUQWQ4&NR=1

im gonna try and loop the parts where the guy is playing and then try to play along with him drumming.

its cool cause it teaches you a few basic grooves and gives you the notation for them, then the guy plays them afterwards. after each tutorial, there is a a spot to play along with a band with no drum tracks.

thanks for your replies guys.

keep em coming if you have any more suggestions

i also just found this video of jeremy ellis teaching people how to finger drum

he has a series from basic to advanced.

the first video here is just a basic hi hat rhythm like i was watching earlier today with a kick and snare in it too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEpLD6vD43E

damien907 wrote:so im trying to step my drum game up and add some new variety to my drums.

ive included a picture of my piano roll editor with a basic 2 bar 4 on the floor groove. i usally start with something similar to this that i use as a backbone for my beat while im arranging my samples into seperate parts of the song.

my problem is i usually always find my kicks and snares in the same place, even after i go back and add other elements (snare rolls, shakers, rides, ect.) to my drum tracks. i know almost everyone puts the snare in the same place every time, but i guess my problem is, sometimes i dont know where to put little short snares, and stuff to fill up the extra space in my beat.



in this image, my kick would be on the bottom, followed by my snare, my open hat, and my closed hats on the top.

i have my kicks highlighted in both images, in the first one, its just a normal 4 on the floor beat, and in the second one i moved my kick one space over so it creates a kind of pushing effect and catches the listener off gaurd, i think this has potential to create some kind of groove so my beats wont get so stagnant; but i dont really know how make it work right without sounding weird.

i know alot has to do with the sample, but could anyone shed some light for me, maybe link me up with some youtube clips of hip hop beats with more complex or even syncopated drum patterns.



i was trying to get my education on with this b. durazzo beat making video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGlYCU8jBLU

i really like the drums in b. durazzo's mpc video, they start at 1 minute in.
there is alot going on at once, even if upon first listen it doesnt sound like it.
i was trying to see if i could draw a similar pattern into logic and try and dissect them to no avail. i dont use toms usually so i was starting my sequence without the fill at the start.

dont worry b. durazzo, i wasnt trying to bite your drums, i was just trying to experiment around with new drum patterns and your video was the first one i stumbled upon with unique sounding drums.

any help or links to beats with more complex drum patterns would be great.

Ok, so in that piano roll grid you posted... you want to insert your accents in the empty space between the hi hats. So.... let me think here.

hi hats = H
kicks = K
Snare = S
snare accents = A

Here goes a 2 bar groove in a similar fashion to your grid with accents:

H--H--H--H--H--H--H--H--
--A----S--------A----S----A
K------------KK----K-------

I hope that helps... feel free to email me at [email protected] with more questions!

hey thanks alot man, that really helped me actaully; i was kinda expirementing aorund with putting snare accents in different places, but i never really knew where a regular drummer would put them. im gonna go mess around with putting them between the hats and doing some fills and stuff with them.

thanks for getting back to me man, and everyone else thanks for your replies as well.