Level problem, MPC output vs digital output via soundcard

Hello, I was wondering if anyone can help. This is a really important question for me so I hope someone could kindly give some suggestions as I'm wrecking my brain!!

Here is my basic setup with regards to the problem. My 2500jj goes to the mixer which goes to the monitors. My Focusrite soundcard also goes to the same mixer.

The point of this setup is so that using the mixer, I can independantly play either the sound coming from the MPC, or the sound coming from my soundcard.

The MPC's digital out is connected to the Focusrite digi in, so I can digitally record tracks from the MPC into my computer DAW. So Basically, the mixer switches between a beat from the MPC, and the same beat coming via the soundcard instead.

I read that the digital out of the MPC mirrors the main out, so I expected when I got my recent computer/soundcard setup, that it would sound exactly the same as coming out of the MPC directly.

Unfortunately, when I switch to listening through the soundcard, the track becomes MUCH MUCH quieter. I expected to hear exactly the same sound - but there is a major level difference.

To give an idea how much, if I turn the soundcards level right up to eleven/max on the mixer, I would only have to turn the MPC level to the very first notch on the mixer to get an equal level. With the soundcard level maxed, it's still not loud enough to damage my ears or the monitors, wheras the MPC would be.

Does anyone know why there would be a big difference in level just because I'm sending it through the soundcard? I have the feeling Its gonna be something really obvious. But any suggestions would be great.

Thanks!!
E

I had the same issue with my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra. The SPDIF signal gain couldn't be altered, and the levels where the weakest I've ever seen. I'm talking between -30 to -20db. The MPC manual said it's a digital signal so it's level couldn't be changed on the MPC, and to adjust the gain on the audio interface. I thought, that actually makes sense, I'll just do the gain on the FTU. Of course I couldn't, and the FTUmanual said to adjust the SPDIF levels at their source. So I couldn't use it with digital.

I use an RME interface now and that does let me adjust SPIDF levels on it's software mixer. Sorry I can't be of more help, but like I said, when I had that issue there was literally nothing I could do.

sounds like a software issue.
a lot is happening between mpc spdif out -> focusrite -> software -> focusrite -> mixer

could be setting on the focusrite.
could be setting in yer recording program.
could be setting in yer effect chain.

point is it's likely in the software.

of course the focusrite could just be operating at a lower level as well.

whoa, this is the first time I've heard that digital out can't be controlled within the hardware. The volume should work the same as the Main Out. The problem, as stated above, has to be from the interface to the software.

that's funny, cause everything i have with SPDIF does NOT have a level control.

i thought it was annoying at first but it's actually kind of nice - one less thing to worry about. makes sense to me, as if it's a digital signal, and you want it to pass unaltered to the next device, a level control would just be altering it.

thinking about it that way there are only two options (as i said):
1) software mucking it up
2) focusrite operating level just being low

most likely #1. how do you pipe sound from the focusrite digi in to the analog out?

Well, the digital outs from my MV and Tascam DP01 can be controlled. I monitor the signals on a cd recorder and keep them at -4dB to 0db before burning to disk. Strange, must be the new thing today.

If I take my track and compress it and add gain etc etc, i can get it to a similar level than a refence CD I play through windows media player.

I haven't found a setting in focusrite software and nothing else in the chain would be causing a problem (unless it could be quality of cables...)

So, if it's to do with the focusrite's hard configuration, would I be right in thinking that, the low level isn't actually a problem with recording input level, i.e. It's not recording too quietly and affecting audio quality, dynamic range, etc, but actually it's just to do with the playback level through my monitors? So is that something you can get used to without worrying about it?

I started using a computer and SPDIf in my attempt to retain a high quality throughout the whole thing. I am basicaly concerned about whether the quiet music through the focusrite is going to affect the overall quality and loudness of tracks.

Thanks again,
E

Dreadful wrote:If I take my track and compress it and add gain etc etc, i can get it to a similar level than a refence CD I play through windows media player.

well hold up, are you trying to match to your mpc source or to a reference cd? totally different things.

Dreadful wrote:(unless it could be quality of cables...)

unlikely unless the cables are just totally broken. 'quality' in terms of cable is only how well they are constructed - the same voltage will still flow regardless of whose over-priced name is on the plastic outside.

Dreadful wrote:would I be right in thinking that, the low level isn't actually a problem with recording input level, i.e. It's not recording too quietly and affecting audio quality, dynamic range, etc, but actually it's just to do with the playback level through my monitors? So is that something you can get used to without worrying about it?

thats up to you to decide, once you actually make a recording.

Dreadful wrote:I started using a computer and SPDIf in my attempt to retain a high quality throughout the whole thing. I am basicaly concerned about whether the quiet music through the focusrite is going to affect the overall quality and loudness of tracks.

well, frankly, you are now talking about something totally different than you did at first. i dont have any idea how your recording setup works...i mean if the mpc goes to the mixer and to the focusrite, and the focusrite goes to the mixer, and yer processing the mpc in software as well as straight into the mixer, i'm really confused how you are making your recordings.

also it would help to know how you are getting the sound from the mpc spdif out to the mixer through the focusrite...what software are you running, or does the focusrite just 'pass through' what is coming in?

i dont know at this point i think it's gonna be more on you to play around with your setup til you get it how you want it.

Hi, sorry I went off on one a bit there and didn't explain very well.

The point about the 'reference' CD was that, it also sounded quiet played just through windows media player (rather than through my DAW as the beat was) so that for me seemed to eliminate a setting in the DAW as being a problem, the point being anything I play from my PC or via the Focusrite, is quieter than what's coming directly from the MPC. That is also what got me thinking (hoping) that the problem isnt to do with the *incoming* recording level, but maybe just the playback level. But I'm not certain about this and am probably getting myself confused.

Also, regarding my setup - I originally wanted to record a whole MPC beat into a software, either seperate tracks or full bounced track, so that I can mix in the DAW or generally finish my beat. I was having problems with songs being quiet and a bit rubbish when I resampled and transfered the WAV via usb etc, so I decided SPDIF might be the best way to do it, hence the digital connection to the soundcard.

I got the mixer so that I could use the MPC and computer seperately with my monitor speakers...I can hit play on the MPC and listen through the focusrite mixer software, or record into daw (Ableton Live). So hopefully that explains my strange setup The mixer is simply so I can switch between using the MPC and using the PC ... and thats how i discovered the beat coming via the computer was much quieter than straight out of the MPC.

Cheers for replies by the way!!