What kind of hardware interface are you guys using for your vst? I was thinking of getting logic7 to use in conjunction with a M-audio firewire 410 or 1814...or possible go with the motu 828.
Thanks
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By head034
Mon May 09, 2005 1:57 pm
By cyrus
Mon May 09, 2005 4:31 pm
with q link you can assign the qlink knobs to control things inside the mpc; on the 4k there are 4 large knobs and 2 sliders dedicated to q link, along with 8 buttons, you dont really need an external control except for "keys".
On the mpc4000, You have filters, evelopes, modulation, LFO, Layering, just to name a few.
Basically if you know about basic "rompler" synthesis, you can do the same thing on the 4k as you can on the motif or triton..........the only main differance being, if you add an analog synthesis expansion card to the motif or triton you cannot Synthesize like a VA synth. BUt you can accomplish the same deal just by sampling the waveforms and looping them, layering, adjusting envelopes, filtering, etc.
If you compare the mpc4k and a good sound library to an EMU unit, like the proteus 2000, you actually get more flexibility with layers, sounds, sampling (obviously). Synthesis wise, its about the same. BUt overall its more powerfull.
Im almost done with sampling the raw waveforms of my triton.......NOT the preset patches, but the actual waveforms that create the patches; youd be suprised how close some of them are to the patches once you break each patch down. Im gonna try to recreate some patches with the mpc4000. I also plan on sampling every preset patch as well, dry, with no effects applied so that they can be manipulated similar as if they where on the triton.
How much of a tweaker are you? Really, I feel perfectly fine with the amount of tools given to me on the 4k. Maybe you want to synthesize like on a VA. BUt if all you are gonna do is use presets, you might as well just sample the source using the 4k, or buy multisample cds.....any basic editing that needs to be done after that, the mpc4k can handle.
On the mpc4000, You have filters, evelopes, modulation, LFO, Layering, just to name a few.
Basically if you know about basic "rompler" synthesis, you can do the same thing on the 4k as you can on the motif or triton..........the only main differance being, if you add an analog synthesis expansion card to the motif or triton you cannot Synthesize like a VA synth. BUt you can accomplish the same deal just by sampling the waveforms and looping them, layering, adjusting envelopes, filtering, etc.
If you compare the mpc4k and a good sound library to an EMU unit, like the proteus 2000, you actually get more flexibility with layers, sounds, sampling (obviously). Synthesis wise, its about the same. BUt overall its more powerfull.
Im almost done with sampling the raw waveforms of my triton.......NOT the preset patches, but the actual waveforms that create the patches; youd be suprised how close some of them are to the patches once you break each patch down. Im gonna try to recreate some patches with the mpc4000. I also plan on sampling every preset patch as well, dry, with no effects applied so that they can be manipulated similar as if they where on the triton.
How much of a tweaker are you? Really, I feel perfectly fine with the amount of tools given to me on the 4k. Maybe you want to synthesize like on a VA. BUt if all you are gonna do is use presets, you might as well just sample the source using the 4k, or buy multisample cds.....any basic editing that needs to be done after that, the mpc4k can handle.
By head034
Mon May 09, 2005 10:10 pm
after searching around and reading..I think as far as a interface i will probably get the M-audio firewire 1814 to use.. It looks as if it should work good with logic, and now they also have pro-tools compatibality for it, for $350...kind of have the best of both words..
Will do my MPC sequencing/VST insturments with logic7...Then transfer what is done in Logic7 to protools..
Will do my MPC sequencing/VST insturments with logic7...Then transfer what is done in Logic7 to protools..
By rookie
Mon May 09, 2005 10:57 pm
check your pm...
a fool says in his heart,that there is no GOD! "Go find some happiness" http://soundcloud.com/rookie738
MPC TUTOR WROTE
this is an end-user discussion forum, not a board of director's meeting.
MPC TUTOR WROTE
this is an end-user discussion forum, not a board of director's meeting.
By cyrus
Tue May 10, 2005 2:17 am
for any of you guys who cares, I emailed flossmodeco some questions pertaining to the cds.
This is his response:
SO basically this means that the cds are all 1 hits, but this should be no problem keymapping on the mpc4000. All you have to do is create a template program, then just swap the samples, making sure you mark the sample the key that it is.
Actually this is how i have been sampling my triton. Just 1 note, c3, then spreading them, I compared them to the original and you cant notice any wierdness when spread out 61 keys. I also have been looping the samples so they have infinite sustain. I doubt that his are looped, but that should be no problem. The only thing is, if he sampled with all the effects on, it might be difficult to find a looping point. Ive noticed on the www.hollowsun.com samples, alot of his samples are only 1 hits (alot of the basses) sometimes there are like 3 samples. But i think this is because of the mpc4k and its ability to spread the samples well without ruinging the samples, if its like a piano, you will need more than 1 sample.
But for 30 bucks, i think this is a good deal........especially since he sampled every single patch, there has got to be something good in there!
"Im interested in the motif and triton unleashed. I am wondering about the keyboard patches (not the drums)........Are they multisamples? are they already keymapped? How many samples per patch? What key are they in?"
This is his response:
"these sounds are sampled in C#. So they sound really well when distributed across all keys."
SO basically this means that the cds are all 1 hits, but this should be no problem keymapping on the mpc4000. All you have to do is create a template program, then just swap the samples, making sure you mark the sample the key that it is.
Actually this is how i have been sampling my triton. Just 1 note, c3, then spreading them, I compared them to the original and you cant notice any wierdness when spread out 61 keys. I also have been looping the samples so they have infinite sustain. I doubt that his are looped, but that should be no problem. The only thing is, if he sampled with all the effects on, it might be difficult to find a looping point. Ive noticed on the www.hollowsun.com samples, alot of his samples are only 1 hits (alot of the basses) sometimes there are like 3 samples. But i think this is because of the mpc4k and its ability to spread the samples well without ruinging the samples, if its like a piano, you will need more than 1 sample.
But for 30 bucks, i think this is a good deal........especially since he sampled every single patch, there has got to be something good in there!
By jbplaya
Tue May 10, 2005 5:55 am
Good thing you cleared that up Cyrus because I just got his entire Roland series and they're all one shots. I was like WTF! So I guess you spread the sample out both ways down the keyboard? I'm still learning this 4000 mumbo jumbo.
By jbplaya
Tue May 10, 2005 6:13 am
Oh, and they are looped. But some of the files seem to be corrupt. I also got Trusty's patches. Even though they are plentiful, there are some velocity issues in alot of them. Now that Cyrus let me know what's up, I might just resample and pitch them. It's hard to find good quality patches for this thing.
By cyrus
Tue May 10, 2005 8:38 am
did you download the patches from www.hollowsun.com ?
there are alot of good ones there that are already key mapped for you. Granted, some of them might not be your taste, but there is enough for a good start. All the basses are pretty good.
I downloaded the entire library, it took me like an hour.
To keymap using 1 sample is pretty easy. BTW. this is all from memory so if I get confusing just ask me, or please someone else correct me! This is what you have to do:
1. load up the sample. If you are just learning this, load up 1 sample only so there is no confusion with other samples.
2. Create a new keygroup program. Just select the current program and hit open window, the create new should appear. Make sure you create a "keygroup" not a "drum program"
3. Next we need to make sure we know exactly what key and note the sample is, so that we can assign it to its appropriate key. I.E. we need to know whether its a c note, or g, or whatever, and preferablely know what octave it is I.E. c1 or c2 or c3, or whatever it may be. 1 being low, 2,3,4 being high. So I.E. if it is a f3 we are going to assign it to the actual f3 key then chromatically spread the sample out both ways-hi and low. the Letter is the actual note, and the number describes the note location on the keyboard. C3 is the middle c note on a 61 keyboard. C4 is higher pitched and C2 is lower. You use the same numbering system for the other notes in the same octave....I.E. the d to the right of the c3 would be d3, the d to the left of c3 would be d2.
for the flossmodeco he said that they are all c# and im assuming he means middle c# which would be C3#. He could be wrong or miss informing me......... I dont know, he may have meant just C3. I dont know, because thats what i sample. So to double check you can compare the actual hit to a piano sound you know is right, or use a tuner. I dont actually have the cd so i dont know. If the sound is lower or higher, you can make the judgement as to whether you should assign it to c1#, c2,3,etc. Lets assume he was right.
4. Hit the sample button to open the sample edit page. Go to Trim. Select the sample name and hit "open window" on the page that appear there should be a Note assigned to the sample. I think the default is c3. If you highlight it you can change it. Change it to c3#...or c#3 (i dont remember how its listed)
5. Hit the program button to open the program page. Make sure you have the keygroup program selected(the one you created new-this is on the first page in program mode f1). Now go to where you can assign the sample in the list. It looks like an accel spread sheet with columns. I apologize that i dont remember the specific name of each pages in program mode. But I think the one you want is either the 2nd or 3rd softkey f2? or f3?. There should be a 1 in the first column. Since you only have 1 sample all you need is 1. NExt is the sample column, after that is the hi to low range column(there is a small pic with mini keys), then the tuning?, so on so forth. The hi low numbers should be set to 0 to 127? (whatever the max is)Everything else should be set fine. you just have to assign the sample. High light the empty space under sample, scroll until your sample appears.
6. you are done.
Hopefully this was simple. if you had like 3 samples youd need 3 open slots, I.E. if you where assigning c1, c2, and c3 into one program. You would then just adjust the hi low range to how many keys you wanted the sample to cover. If you have just 1 sample, all you have to do is make sure the correct note is assigned to the sample, then just make sure the hi and low range is at zero and 127. This way no matter what note the sample is, it will automatically spread it out correctly. Experiment to learn more about it, Try changing the note that is assigned to the sample. If you change it to f3 it will use f3 as its starting point and tune it incraments in realtion from f3. So on so forth.
there are alot of good ones there that are already key mapped for you. Granted, some of them might not be your taste, but there is enough for a good start. All the basses are pretty good.
I downloaded the entire library, it took me like an hour.
To keymap using 1 sample is pretty easy. BTW. this is all from memory so if I get confusing just ask me, or please someone else correct me! This is what you have to do:
1. load up the sample. If you are just learning this, load up 1 sample only so there is no confusion with other samples.
2. Create a new keygroup program. Just select the current program and hit open window, the create new should appear. Make sure you create a "keygroup" not a "drum program"
3. Next we need to make sure we know exactly what key and note the sample is, so that we can assign it to its appropriate key. I.E. we need to know whether its a c note, or g, or whatever, and preferablely know what octave it is I.E. c1 or c2 or c3, or whatever it may be. 1 being low, 2,3,4 being high. So I.E. if it is a f3 we are going to assign it to the actual f3 key then chromatically spread the sample out both ways-hi and low. the Letter is the actual note, and the number describes the note location on the keyboard. C3 is the middle c note on a 61 keyboard. C4 is higher pitched and C2 is lower. You use the same numbering system for the other notes in the same octave....I.E. the d to the right of the c3 would be d3, the d to the left of c3 would be d2.
for the flossmodeco he said that they are all c# and im assuming he means middle c# which would be C3#. He could be wrong or miss informing me......... I dont know, he may have meant just C3. I dont know, because thats what i sample. So to double check you can compare the actual hit to a piano sound you know is right, or use a tuner. I dont actually have the cd so i dont know. If the sound is lower or higher, you can make the judgement as to whether you should assign it to c1#, c2,3,etc. Lets assume he was right.
4. Hit the sample button to open the sample edit page. Go to Trim. Select the sample name and hit "open window" on the page that appear there should be a Note assigned to the sample. I think the default is c3. If you highlight it you can change it. Change it to c3#...or c#3 (i dont remember how its listed)
5. Hit the program button to open the program page. Make sure you have the keygroup program selected(the one you created new-this is on the first page in program mode f1). Now go to where you can assign the sample in the list. It looks like an accel spread sheet with columns. I apologize that i dont remember the specific name of each pages in program mode. But I think the one you want is either the 2nd or 3rd softkey f2? or f3?. There should be a 1 in the first column. Since you only have 1 sample all you need is 1. NExt is the sample column, after that is the hi to low range column(there is a small pic with mini keys), then the tuning?, so on so forth. The hi low numbers should be set to 0 to 127? (whatever the max is)Everything else should be set fine. you just have to assign the sample. High light the empty space under sample, scroll until your sample appears.
6. you are done.
Hopefully this was simple. if you had like 3 samples youd need 3 open slots, I.E. if you where assigning c1, c2, and c3 into one program. You would then just adjust the hi low range to how many keys you wanted the sample to cover. If you have just 1 sample, all you have to do is make sure the correct note is assigned to the sample, then just make sure the hi and low range is at zero and 127. This way no matter what note the sample is, it will automatically spread it out correctly. Experiment to learn more about it, Try changing the note that is assigned to the sample. If you change it to f3 it will use f3 as its starting point and tune it incraments in realtion from f3. So on so forth.
By AWW_NAWW
Tue May 10, 2005 8:57 am
The Hollow Sun free download service is suspended until further notice
.....AND THATS HOW THIS SHT GO!!.... AND I KNOW YOU DONT LIKE ME SPITTIN YA MOTHAFCKIN FACE BUT AINT A MOTHAFCKIN THANG YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT NEITHA !! PUNK MOTHAFFAHCKAH!!!
http://www.soundclick.com/awmighty
http://www.myspace.com/awmighty
http://www.soundclick.com/awmighty
http://www.myspace.com/awmighty
By head034
Tue May 10, 2005 11:02 am
This is one of the things that I was in fear of with buying the sample CDs..when I was using the s950, and spread them up and down the keyboard, it seem that the keys was on the very low or very high end of the keyboard just didn't sound right(to slow or to fast)..which would make you have to do some off the wall sampling with one shot/hit samples/patches..
Not sure if the people like flossmode or hollowsun did multi sampling or sampled each note of the patch to make quality sounds. But then again you could take there one hit sample and stretch it in the keys that are needed with recycle and dump the notes need back into the mpc as a Key group!
That was one of the other reasons why I was looking very strong and using VST/VSTi for synths..plus you aren't limited to just having a stand alone workstation or module (proteus2000, triton, motif, xv5080....)
Also, with VST insturments..it seems unlimited in the sounds that you can get..seems like some one creates a new one almost everyday to add to the pile...some free, some to pay for
Not sure if the people like flossmode or hollowsun did multi sampling or sampled each note of the patch to make quality sounds. But then again you could take there one hit sample and stretch it in the keys that are needed with recycle and dump the notes need back into the mpc as a Key group!
That was one of the other reasons why I was looking very strong and using VST/VSTi for synths..plus you aren't limited to just having a stand alone workstation or module (proteus2000, triton, motif, xv5080....)
Also, with VST insturments..it seems unlimited in the sounds that you can get..seems like some one creates a new one almost everyday to add to the pile...some free, some to pay for
cyrus wrote:for any of you guys who cares, I emailed flossmodeco some questions pertaining to the cds."Im interested in the motif and triton unleashed. I am wondering about the keyboard patches (not the drums)........Are they multisamples? are they already keymapped? How many samples per patch? What key are they in?"
This is his response:"these sounds are sampled in C#. So they sound really well when distributed across all keys."
SO basically this means that the cds are all 1 hits, but this should be no problem keymapping on the mpc4000. All you have to do is create a template program, then just swap the samples, making sure you mark the sample the key that it is.
Actually this is how i have been sampling my triton. Just 1 note, c3, then spreading them, I compared them to the original and you cant notice any wierdness when spread out 61 keys. I also have been looping the samples so they have infinite sustain. I doubt that his are looped, but that should be no problem. The only thing is, if he sampled with all the effects on, it might be difficult to find a looping point. Ive noticed on the www.hollowsun.com samples, alot of his samples are only 1 hits (alot of the basses) sometimes there are like 3 samples. But i think this is because of the mpc4k and its ability to spread the samples well without ruinging the samples, if its like a piano, you will need more than 1 sample.
But for 30 bucks, i think this is a good deal........especially since he sampled every single patch, there has got to be something good in there!
By cyrus
Tue May 10, 2005 3:15 pm
hollow sun multisampled. they are seriously great. You can learn alot by just examining the programs. All you gotta do is load them up and they work right away in the mpc4000. They dont work in any other mpc.........you can make them work by taking the samples and creating your own programs, but the multisample programs that are supported are mpc4000 and akai s5000.
But i think i have something like 500 patches? If not more, i dont remember. and like 60 drum kits. Check back with them as they are well worth it.
head034, But you got some good points about ease of vst; plus you always got the option to make your own multisamples for the mpc4k from vsts.
But, the mpc4000 spreads the notes better than the s950. Ive compared my own multisample (looped c3 note spread across 61 keys) to the actual sound.......off of patches on my triton, and they sound nearly identical. Granted-not every patch will sound identical, such as a really acoustic sounding patch, but so far it works great........for someone like me its all i need. I keep my module around for the acoustic pianos. BUt I mainly sample bass and synth sounds, and vinyl. So i dont need an extremely expansive library, just essential multisamples to fill in gaps.
I think if you were to buy sample cds and just use the mpc4000, you have to research the sample cd, and ask lots of questions. Dont just assume that if it says "multisample" that it is good. ANd you cant look at it neccessarily as the "cheap route" but more so as an alternative that can be cheaper. If all you buy are cheap multisample cds, youll have cheap sounds, but if you invest some money and research you can get good ones. There are some sounds you have to invest in.........like pianos, guitars, and solo strings. BUt synths, basses, and analog patches, you can pretty much go with the run of the mill sample cds......like the ones on eastwest.com. Or the basses from mpc tutor. Actually! the free www.hollowsun.com patches pretty much fill in the gaps for all the analog samples, organs, and bass patches.
But also keep in mind that I produce hiphop. If you are making trance or techno ish stuff, you might need some multisamples that rely more on those hard dance synths, then id for sure get VSTs or a VA type synth, because you have more control over filters and sweeping patches, and arpegiators.
I think the best option would really be to use VSTs then, if you wanted to use just your mpc4k, make multisamples from the VSTs and load them into the mpc4k. Figure out the quik process in exporting the sounds from the vsts into mpc4k format. I think there is a program that allows you to simplely just hit export. Anyways, that way you get best of both worlds, tons of patches and unlimited flexability, and the power to have it all inside the mpc4k for easy organization of tracks, and portabilty.........you can just take your mpc4k to the studio, no need to lug everything around.
peace.
But i think i have something like 500 patches? If not more, i dont remember. and like 60 drum kits. Check back with them as they are well worth it.
head034, But you got some good points about ease of vst; plus you always got the option to make your own multisamples for the mpc4k from vsts.
But, the mpc4000 spreads the notes better than the s950. Ive compared my own multisample (looped c3 note spread across 61 keys) to the actual sound.......off of patches on my triton, and they sound nearly identical. Granted-not every patch will sound identical, such as a really acoustic sounding patch, but so far it works great........for someone like me its all i need. I keep my module around for the acoustic pianos. BUt I mainly sample bass and synth sounds, and vinyl. So i dont need an extremely expansive library, just essential multisamples to fill in gaps.
I think if you were to buy sample cds and just use the mpc4000, you have to research the sample cd, and ask lots of questions. Dont just assume that if it says "multisample" that it is good. ANd you cant look at it neccessarily as the "cheap route" but more so as an alternative that can be cheaper. If all you buy are cheap multisample cds, youll have cheap sounds, but if you invest some money and research you can get good ones. There are some sounds you have to invest in.........like pianos, guitars, and solo strings. BUt synths, basses, and analog patches, you can pretty much go with the run of the mill sample cds......like the ones on eastwest.com. Or the basses from mpc tutor. Actually! the free www.hollowsun.com patches pretty much fill in the gaps for all the analog samples, organs, and bass patches.
But also keep in mind that I produce hiphop. If you are making trance or techno ish stuff, you might need some multisamples that rely more on those hard dance synths, then id for sure get VSTs or a VA type synth, because you have more control over filters and sweeping patches, and arpegiators.
I think the best option would really be to use VSTs then, if you wanted to use just your mpc4k, make multisamples from the VSTs and load them into the mpc4k. Figure out the quik process in exporting the sounds from the vsts into mpc4k format. I think there is a program that allows you to simplely just hit export. Anyways, that way you get best of both worlds, tons of patches and unlimited flexability, and the power to have it all inside the mpc4k for easy organization of tracks, and portabilty.........you can just take your mpc4k to the studio, no need to lug everything around.
peace.
Last edited by cyrus on Tue May 10, 2005 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By glide
Tue May 10, 2005 3:18 pm
planing on buying emu 1616m
aslo beheringer just brought out a very cheap "inespesif" interface.. can´t remember the name, table top around 220$.. adat 6 analouge outs ect...
aslo beheringer just brought out a very cheap "inespesif" interface.. can´t remember the name, table top around 220$.. adat 6 analouge outs ect...
By MaZe
Tue May 10, 2005 3:51 pm
I just purchased the Triton kit from FlossMode. I have the triton so I will be able to tell everyone how close it is to the real thing. I will run it through some A-B and come back with my findings.
Cyrus has given plenty of good info in this thread already and I would all heed it if I were you. The hollowsun kits are pretty good for bread and butter sounds,: keys, bass, some strings, analog, organs, etc.
VSTs are of course great and some are better than others in producing their specialized sound i.e. NI Electrik Piano (EP's), Lounge Lizard (Rhodes), Basstation (Bass?), etc. Using Chaniner, a VST host, you can choose your favorite patches and export the notes of your choice from each key on an 88 board, to 1 every octave, to just one key. Utilizing this method you can, as Cyrus said, just use your MPC for everything and keep it all in there. Makes things much easier and neat. I for instance have the ADAT option on my MPC and max ram, I would much rather track my "VSTs" through the ADAT on the MPC then out of the computer into a mixer routed back into the PC (yes I know you dont have to do this). I have already multisampled some of my VSTs and I am quite happy with the results. I am in the process of selling all of my other gear and just keeping everything in the MPC.
MaZe
Cyrus has given plenty of good info in this thread already and I would all heed it if I were you. The hollowsun kits are pretty good for bread and butter sounds,: keys, bass, some strings, analog, organs, etc.
VSTs are of course great and some are better than others in producing their specialized sound i.e. NI Electrik Piano (EP's), Lounge Lizard (Rhodes), Basstation (Bass?), etc. Using Chaniner, a VST host, you can choose your favorite patches and export the notes of your choice from each key on an 88 board, to 1 every octave, to just one key. Utilizing this method you can, as Cyrus said, just use your MPC for everything and keep it all in there. Makes things much easier and neat. I for instance have the ADAT option on my MPC and max ram, I would much rather track my "VSTs" through the ADAT on the MPC then out of the computer into a mixer routed back into the PC (yes I know you dont have to do this). I have already multisampled some of my VSTs and I am quite happy with the results. I am in the process of selling all of my other gear and just keeping everything in the MPC.
MaZe
By cyrus
Tue May 10, 2005 8:41 pm
Good points^^
I am by no means an expert on this shtuff, im just writing what i know from my experience. Sometimes i feel like i am rambling, and i use this forum to avoid doing anything productive! Hoepefully i help some people along the way.
But I just wanted to say that, no matter what you use or how you do it, learn the equipment inside and out, and use it to its fullest. Sometimes limitations can spark good creativity. And its not the equipment, its the user............people have heard this a million times, but its so true, there is no excuse to be a lazy ass.
Madlib for example just uses an sp303, when compared to the 4k its **** rediculous!
So educate yourself, and move on, worry more about doing than having.
Thats all good advice to everyone, even experience users who claim they need a ssl. And on the humble tip, The more equipment I buy, the more I realize that I need to step my game up and loose some of the equipment.
Peace. Good luck to everyone.
I am by no means an expert on this shtuff, im just writing what i know from my experience. Sometimes i feel like i am rambling, and i use this forum to avoid doing anything productive! Hoepefully i help some people along the way.
But I just wanted to say that, no matter what you use or how you do it, learn the equipment inside and out, and use it to its fullest. Sometimes limitations can spark good creativity. And its not the equipment, its the user............people have heard this a million times, but its so true, there is no excuse to be a lazy ass.
Madlib for example just uses an sp303, when compared to the 4k its **** rediculous!
So educate yourself, and move on, worry more about doing than having.
Thats all good advice to everyone, even experience users who claim they need a ssl. And on the humble tip, The more equipment I buy, the more I realize that I need to step my game up and loose some of the equipment.
Peace. Good luck to everyone.