Mpc-5000 at july namm/4000 discontinued??

Your last point is dead on. 90% of people that have ever used an MPC, have no idea how to use a full fledge sampler. That is because so many of them are just using it to slice up loops or use drum kits. They are not doing any sound modeling. I guess people aren't doing that on hardware samplers at all anymore since Akai dropped all their stand alone samplers. Might also be why the 4k apears to be dying off (since its based off the same sampling engine). The 1k and 2500 seem to still be selling very well despite the fact that it is still the same basic machine since the mpc60 with a few new tricks each time around. I've noticed the 2500 is actually missing a bunch of features from the XL, but any newcomers (or people that do not use all the features) would not know the difference.

Unless akai pro dies, they will release more hardware. It just might stay more on the low end since that is what is selling. I could see an MPC500 that has even less features selling against those electribes. They already tried the software route, that didn't work for them, so I don't see that happening. Most hardware companies that have tried to make that switch went straight to the grave.

Bazziman wrote:
From a current users point of view, you're right. But from a commercial point of view I don't see why Akai should keep manufacturing the 2000xl...how many of those are they still selling (new)?

I don't know..but as a previous MPC 2000XL, if I needed a replacement, I would pick up a new XL or maybe move to a 2500.

quote:
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In regards to the MPC 4000...it's full fledge sampler is the main function which seperates it from the 2500.
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Bazziman wrote:
That is a huge thing (add to that the big screen and the better filters, fx and 24/96 sampling)

Huge to whom?? Many of us MPC users have software based DAWs and samplers. Bigger screens(if you need such a thing)..even better filters..and equal or higher sample rates... This is not huge if a user doesn't want or need such functions.

Bazzimanwrote:
Sure. I understand, I think though that (especially with the mpc's 3rd party os) the gaps between the 2500 and the 4000 are to big compared to that between the 2500 and the 1000. I could be wrong of course, but a larger screen or just 24/96 capabilities or something that made the 2500 stick out more would have helped the 2500 fit the gap between 4000 and 1000 a bit better. I feel the 2500 is still somewhat underpowered (especially compared to the 1000)

Of course this is reasoned from a marketing perspective; the 2500 is probably just the right thing for many users.

You may be still missing the point. MPC 2500 users don't care about what the 1000 does. If we wanted a 1000, we could have bought two for the price of a 2500. Underpowered?? It samples and sequences..don't need it to do magic tricks. You don't need a larger screen for what it does. Music is created with your ears not eyes. 24/96 for a drum machine?? Not really needed.

But..at least you have options...there is nothing wrong with that.

McSmooth wrote:
I've noticed the 2500 is actually missing a bunch of features from the XL, but any newcomers (or people that do not use all the features) would not know the difference.

For every one feature that the XL has that the 2500 doesn't...there are probably 1 to 2 additional features that are specific to the 2500. And..I am far from a newcomer. I have been messin with the XL since its release in 99. The MPC 60 and the 1000 are the only MPCs that I never owned.

McSmooth wrote:
Unless akai pro dies, they will release more hardware. It just might stay more on the low end since that is what is selling. I could see an MPC500 that has even less features selling against those electribes. They already tried the software route, that didn't work for them, so I don't see that happening. Most hardware companies that have tried to make that switch went straight to the grave.

I could see Akai either droppin the price of the 1000 for the catz just starting out or possibly an even cheaper model for the kids....I don't see them stop producing highend MPCs though.....

jahrome wrote:

Bazziman wrote:
I think this can only mean one thing: the 2000xl is out.
And the 4000 will be eventually if they ever decide to make a 5000.

I kind of 'predicted' and wished for a 2500 right after the 1000 came out (including the version number and most of the features). I still feel the gap between the 2500 and the 4000 is too large, specs-wise and it will certainly be if and when a 5000 hits the shelves and the 1000 is too close (especially with the 3rd party os) to the 2500.

It seems though that the processor of the 2500 is the same as the 1000 (from what I read) so it's going to be pretty tough to upgrade the 2500 to something closer to the 4000....

I don't believe the MPC 2000XL will be 'out' unless Akai finally fixes the few remaining issues with the MPC 2500s OS 1.21.

Many MPC users wanted an MPC like the 2500 since 1997..one that was similar to the MPC 3000 and builds on the functions of the MPC 2000XL. In regards to the MPC 4000...it's full fledge sampler is the main function which seperates it from the 2500. While this function produces a gap bewteen the MPC 4000 and MPC 2500...it's something that pleases many of us long time users who don't want/need that in an MPC.

i agree.

"You may be still missing the point. MPC 2500 users don't care about what the 1000 does."

You do realise the difference between users and potential buyers? For a potential buyer the differences in price and specs between the 2500 and the 1000 are very relevant. I feel the differences are too small, especially in relation to the 4000.

"Underpowered?? "

Relative to the 1000 is sure is. In fact it's the exact same processor.

"It samples and sequences..don't need it to do magic tricks."

If that were true Akai would still just sell the mpc60. Companies that want to sell stuff need to innovate, not stand still. There is no money to be made by Akai from the MPC60, even though there are still tons of happy users out there.

"You don't need a larger screen for what it does. Music is created with your ears not eyes. 24/96 for a drum machine?? Not really needed."

Sure, you completely right (mostly at defending your own purchase it seems). I'm not going to argue with you about which specs the 2500 should have had, but you so missed the point about Akai and their doing business, and judging by Akai track record I think defending Akai's business decissions, it a brave but impossible thing to do.

If you have a product portfolio the last thing you want to do is canabalise your own products. This is exactly what the 1000 is doing to de 2500.

The 1000 and the 2500 are too close to each other (specswise) and by using the same processor for both machines (and with JJ the 3rd party OS developer), Akai is going to have a tough time differntiating the 2500 from the 1000 besides the already existing hardware differences.

IMHO Akai underspec'd the 2500's processor. Had it been a 24/96 machine or had it had a bigger screen (for better grid, score, sample etc. editting) or some hardware (like a faster processor) that set it apart from the 1000, Akai wouldn't have had this problem.

There's a big, big difference between what you as an individual think is the right machine, what other current users think is the right machine and what is the right machine from a commercial and marketing perspective.

That's my point. If you don't get it, I'm happy to explain it to you again.

Bazziman wrote:
You do realise the difference between users and potential buyers? For a potential buyer the differences in price and specs between the 2500 and the 1000 are very relevant. I feel the differences are too small, especially in relation to the 4000.

I don't think anyone is beating down any doors to pick up an MPC 4000. Although you may feel that the differences between the MPC 2500 and the 1000 are so small and doesn't justify the price....it doesn't make one bit of of difference to MPC 3000 and 2000XL users wanting an update to what they are already using. To move from an MPC 3000 to a 1000? Who in their right mind would do such a thing? Moving from an MPC 3000 to an MPC 2500 is more logical if you want more of the same with enhanced functions.

Bazziman wrote:
If that were true Akai would still just sell the mpc60. Companies that want to sell stuff need to innovate, not stand still. There is no money to be made by Akai from the MPC60, even though there are still tons of happy users out there.

Just not enough happy users or potential buyers....they wouldn't make much of a profit selling an MPC 60 today..or even an MPC 3000.

Bazziman wrote:
Sure, you completely right (mostly at defending your own purchase it seems). I'm not going to argue with you about which specs the 2500 should have had, but you so missed the point about Akai and their doing business, and judging by Akai track record I think defending Akai's business decissions, it a brave but impossible thing to do.

If you have a product portfolio the last thing you want to do is canabalise your own products. This is exactly what the 1000 is doing to de 2500.

The 1000 and the 2500 are too close to each other (specswise) and by using the same processor for both machines (and with JJ the 3rd party OS developer), Akai is going to have a tough time differntiating the 2500 from the 1000 besides the already existing hardware differences.

IMHO Akai underspec'd the 2500's processor. Had it been a 24/96 machine or had it had a bigger screen (for better grid, score, sample etc. editting) or some hardware (like a faster processor) that set it apart from the 1000, Akai wouldn't have had this problem.

There's a big, big difference between what you as an individual think is the right machine, what other current users think is the right machine and what is the right machine from a commercial and marketing perspective.

That's my point. If you don't get it, I'm happy to explain it to you again.

Everybody (including myself) probably think they can run a business better. Everybody has ideas how they can improve a company. Maybe you can complete your education and go work for Akai. I don't care about Akai's business. I just want an MPC that works. I have used an MPC 3000 and 2000XL for years. I didn't need tech support or anything else from Akai. If they give me a solid OS for the 2500, I will need nothing else from them.

In this forum, we have MPC 4000 users that want a new OS. They are praying Akai doesn't release another highend MPC and drop support of the 4000, which would lessen the chance for an OS to fix remaining problems.

Then you have the 1000 users who want the exact same OS as the 2500. These users are the ones up in the forums demanding respect and want to justify their purchases. The 1000 is marketed as the affordable MPC....nothing more.

Next, there are the MPC 2500 users that want an OS update to fix current bugs. There are no users worrying about what the 1000 does or doesn't do. I seriously doubt any of the users are thinking about dropping their MPC 2500 in favor of a 1000. I think you will find more 1000 users in the 2500 forum than vice-versa. If potential MPC 2500 users feel that the MPC 2500 is underpowered in terms of specs, they can attempt to locate an MPC 4000. There is not a big difference in terms of prices. I believe the MPC 2500 is marketed to MPC 3000 and 2000XL users in addition to the musicians looking for an enhanced MPC for live use.

There's a big, big difference between what you as an individual think is the right machine, what other current users think is the right machine and what is the right machine from a commercial and marketing perspective. Yup..your own quote right back at you I honestly have no interest in Akai's business practices. It's obvious that you do. Again..get your education and apply for a job with them. Or start your own business and develop a competing company.

That's my point. If you don't get it, I'm happy to explain it to you again....oh..another one of your quotes right back at you....

Bazziman wrote:If that were true Akai would still just sell the mpc60. Companies that want to sell stuff need to innovate, not stand still. There is no money to be made by Akai from the MPC60, even though there are still tons of happy users out there.

Just not enough happy users or potential buyers....they wouldn't make much of a profit selling an MPC 60 today..or even an MPC 3000.

My point. So you agree that 'just a sequencer and a (drum) sampler isn't enough, eh? If Akai feel they cannot make a whole of money from the 2000xl or the 4000 they will drop them like bricks (if they haven't in fact done so). It is my educated guess that the 2000xl is the first of these two to go: it's archaic technology and has little to offer that the 2500 doesn't have. Why invest in OS's for a machine you don't sell?

Customer goodwill?

Bottom line: Akai has 4 machines allready in it's portfolio; two of which overlap to a large degree (2000xl, 2500). Basically this means the old one will go. Add to that that the 2500 has (in the eyes of a lot of people) too little too offer over the 1000. If and when Akai decide to release a 5000 the 4000 will probably have to go to. It's naive to think that Numark will keep building (and supporting and updating) the 1000, the 2500, the 2000xl, the 4000 and a possible 5000.

Everybody (including myself) probably think they can run a business better. Everybody has ideas how they can improve a company.

It's what I do for a living. In fact (big) succesful companies pay me good money to do just that.

Maybe you can complete your education and go work for Akai.

What the hell does my education have to do with anything, professor?

I don't care about Akai's business. I just want an MPC that works.

Of course you do. But guess Akai (or rather Numark) cares about their business a whole lot. A lot more than they care about you or your wishes as an individual. Don't blame me for that, that's the way of the world.

I have used an MPC 3000 and 2000XL for years. I didn't need tech support or anything else from Akai. If they give me a solid OS for the 2500, I will need nothing else from them.

I'm sure you do. And since Akai probably hope to sell some more 2500s to people like you it would be in their best interest to make sure such an OS is developed.

In this forum, we have MPC 4000 users that want a new OS. They are praying Akai doesn't release another highend MPC and drop support of the 4000, which would lessen the chance for an OS to fix remaining problems.

So now you agree with me? If Akai chose to continue develop for the 2500 they are likely drop the 2000xl.

..... There are no users worrying about what the 1000 does or doesn't do. [...] I seriously doubt any of the users are thinking about dropping their MPC 2500 in favor of a 1000.

You still don't get it do you? It's about buyers, not current users. Akai makes money of people *buying* their product not of people using their products. In fact, dropping and switching (to buy a new / different model) is *good* for Akai. This is how Roland makes a lot of money.

[qoute] I think you will find more 1000 users in the 2500 forum than vice-versa. If potential MPC 2500 users feel that the MPC 2500 is underpowered in terms of specs, they can attempt to locate an MPC 4000. [/quote] It is also underpowered in relation to the 1000: in other words the 2500 and the 1000 are too close whilst the 2500 and the 4000 are too far apart in terms of capabilities.

I believe the MPC 2500 is marketed to MPC 3000 and 2000XL users in addition to the musicians looking for an enhanced MPC for live use.

So you agree that the 2000xl is on the way out?

I honestly have no interest in Akai's business practices.

Of course you don't. But trying to understand them would at least help you understand what we are talking about.

It's obvious that you do. Again..get your education and apply for a job with them. Or start your own business and develop a competing company.

You need to bring that up again eh? I'm pretty confident that whatever education you may have received doesn't come close to mine my education. And as I told you: advising companies how to run their business and how to make money is exactly whay I do and what I get payed for. Good money. Every day.

That's my point. If you don't get it, I'm happy to explain it to you again....oh..another one of your quotes right back at you....

Whatever dude, if it makes you feel happy.

Don't know how this turned into a discusion on the 1k and 2500. I'd say the 2500 is right where it should be minus bug fixes. It will never be a powerhouse sampler and wasn't meant to be. Too many people are using it to chop up low fi samples, so there is no need for 24/96 (that would require the Z engine anyway). 1k users should be lucky they got so many features already. It may be just as capable to do what the 2500 can do, but that just wont happen if they plan to keep selling the 2500 for more.

What is in question here is the continuation of the MPC line with a full sampler (current model or newer). 4k was the first MPC that went off the tranditional drum sampler of every previous machine and required a hell of a lot of new code (unlike with the 1k and 2500). I don't see them creating a new sampler engine, so it is probably a matter of if they want to keep supporting the Z engine.

Once they release some more bug fixes for the 2500... I don't know what would be left on their plate in terms of R&D. That would be the last chance for an 4k update... otherwise they are probably working on the next product. I'm still waiting to see weather or not they will ship any more new 4ks. If they are in fact done with the production line, it looks grim.

McSmooth wrote:Don't know how this turned into a discusion on the 1k and 2500.

Well, the 2500 and the 1000 are part of the product portfolio. It would be kind of hard to leave Akai two latest machine out of a discussion on that subject.

... It may be just as capable to do what the 2500 can do, but that just wont happen if they plan to keep selling the 2500 for more.

Unfortunately for Akai that already has happened (see the 1000s OS), which kinda leaves them in a hard position; they can't upgrade the 2500 OS with stuff that can't also be done on the 1000.

Besides that: I personally think the 2500 could (and should) have been more capable than the '1000 with bigger pads and more outs' which it basically is. Not just from a marketing / commercial pov. More (and better) filters, fx (using a better/faster processor) and possibly 94/24 capability are some of the things I feel would have set it apart more from the 1000.

That would be the last chance for an 4k update... otherwise they are probably working on the next product.

IF they are working an a next gen 4000 (a 5000, a 4000xl) I think it's extremely likely Akai/Numark will drop the 4000, not just from production but from development (new OSs) as well. Even if they don't come with a new mpc-with-a-full-sampler I'm not entire sure about the 4000's future.

Bazziman wrote:
Bottom line: Akai has 4 machines allready in it's portfolio; two of which overlap to a large degree (2000xl, 2500). Basically this means the old one will go. Add to that that the 2500 has (in the eyes of a lot of people) too little too offer over the 1000. If and when Akai decide to release a 5000 the 4000 will probably have to go to. It's naive to think that Numark will keep building (and supporting and updating) the 1000, the 2500, the 2000xl, the 4000 and a possible 5000.

Well...according to you, the MPC 2500 and the 1000 overlap. Since the MPC 2500 is the newest model (my guess is that the 1000 was actually just a beta for the 2500 in the first place), Akai could just drop the 1000. New users would have to spend the extra money for the 2500 if they wanted an MPC. It's not naive to think what Akai will do next. We can only speculate. My guess is they will drop the 1000, keep the 2000XL until the OS on the 2500 is solid, and drop the 4000 in favor of an MPC 5000....

quote:
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Everybody (including myself) probably think they can run a business better. Everybody has ideas how they can improve a company.
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Bazziman wrote:
It's what I do for a living. In fact (big) succesful companies pay me good money to do just that.

Well, offer your services up to Akai/Numark. My guess is that they will pass.

quote:
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I have used an MPC 3000 and 2000XL for years. I didn't need tech support or anything else from Akai. If they give me a solid OS for the 2500, I will need nothing else from them.
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Bazziman wrote:
I'm sure you do. And since Akai probably hope to sell some more 2500s to people like you it would be in their best interest to make sure such an OS is developed.

What MPC do you use again??

I made more money off of Akai then they could ever make from me. Akai put out a product that I wanted, and I bought it. Do I have to repeat that I don't care what their marketing plan is? How does that effect me? I have the MPC I want. Too bad many forum members don't.

Bazziman wrote:
Of course you do. But guess Akai (or rather Numark) cares about their business a whole lot. A lot more than they care about you or your wishes as an individual. Don't blame me for that, that's the way of the world.

Well...I don't know exactly what they think. But, they are listening. The whole idea of the 2500 is exactly what I have been asking for since the late 90s to 2001. More recently, many of the functions myself, as well as many other forum members, asked for, were added to the last 3 OS updates. It appears to me that they care about user's wishes Maybe just not yours...again, what MPC do you use?

Bazziman wrote:
You still don't get it do you? It's about buyers, not current users. Akai makes money of people *buying* their product not of people using their products. In fact, dropping and switching (to buy a new / different model) is *good* for Akai. This is how Roland makes a lot of money.

That's not completely correct. I guess you don't know that people buy MPCs because of word of mouth and advertising. If MPC users didn't swear by them...they wouldn't be in high demand. These buyers are buying them because of what actual users do with them. Akai isn't Roland. Akai drops new MPCs about every 3 years. Roland will try to sale you the same product, in a different package..just 6 months to 1 year later.

Bazziman wrote:
You need to bring that up again eh? I'm pretty confident that whatever education you may have received doesn't come close to mine my education. And as I told you: advising companies how to run their business and how to make money is exactly whay I do and what I get payed for. Good money. Every day.

Hmmm...when I meant education, I was referring to the possibility that you may not have the proper education/experience to run a company like Akai. If you do, and care so much about their business dealings...get a job with them. As far as my education, I am constantly striving to improve myself. My experience allows me to run the daily operations of a business that produces $4 million in medical care each year. But honestly, that means nothing here. My experience allowed me to sale more MPCs than anyone in eBay's history. That is also pointless...but just wanted to throw that out there.


From my perspective, I think Akai is doing the right thing with what they are doing with the 2500 and 1000. I would give the 1000 every possible function of the 2500. It will have no impact on the sales of the 2500.

F_U_C_K_I_N_G YAWN dudes.
-illiac

"RE: MPC 5000 or whatever - I can't see Akai making another machine to top the 4000 for years, if ever. NuAkai seem to have gone back to the older sample engine (44.1 at 16 bit), there is no indication they would suddenly pull 192k 24bit out of fresh air - that would take a heck of a lot of R+D IMHO. I fully agree they should work a bit more on the 4000 OS."


AKAI has already developed a sampler 192k 24 bit. That was a couple of years ago.

adrian wrote:AKAI has already developed a sampler 192k 24 bit. That was a couple of years ago.

What was it used in?

nik wrote:

adrian wrote:AKAI has already developed a sampler 192k 24 bit. That was a couple of years ago.

What was it used in?

I believe it was shown as prototype. I remember it being talked about on here with a link showing it. Specs from what I remember, pretty much looked like a Z4/Z8 but with 192khz/24bit. It wasn't called the Boris, it was something else. If you can't find it here, I think it was also on Gearjunkies as well....


Dave

it was called the DS1000, it was a limited release in Japan.

http://www.gearjunkies.com/product_info ... s_id=13224

Found it, thanks.

Well, i guess that's what to base an MPC 5000 on, but 192 is really extreme sample rate, even 96 is fast for most people, most folks seem to have stuck at 44.1 at 24 bit!