fare thee well mpc4000

people, im a bit sorry to tell i sold my 4k.
fact is: im using more and more my macbook\motu\ableton suite\logic 8...the big white lamborghini was sittin there sad and lonely (takin up a lot of space also), so, sold it and buying a korg ms-20 with the $$$.
its a brilliant machine, i had tons of fun with it, performed my best livesets with it, it inspired me a lot of tracks i wrote. but things do change.

BUT... i now have a remote zero sl which is a brilliant controller but sports those ridiculous midget pads...

does any of ya has some experience with mpd24 or mpd32?
suggestions?
are those pads really the same pads we all love?

holy shit, not the best exchange....

dont understand me wrong, i love analogue stuff, synths etc... had the ms10 also for a while, but trading the 4k for a 30 yr. old monosynth???

u can get the dsi evolver for about 300,- euro used...

anyway.... had also the mpd24 for a while. the pads are ok, but thicker and stiffer than the 4k ones (more like the 2,5k pads).

my only problem was that it doesnt worked with usb, but i think thats perhaps a bill gates problem and not a steve jobs one, so you should be happy with it.

go for it, they are so cheap right now.

where's jahrome convincing you to buy a 5k now that you don't have the 4k anymore?

hehehehhe

i somehow feel i'll cross another 4k in my future.
anyway, i dont see it as trading the 4k for the ms, its just trading things that you dont use and bring in something that you plan to use. and maybe sell it after some months.
i always did like this, i love to change setup often, get new ideas, get to know the machines deeply, then go towards something else.

i loved the 4k and i think i went deep into it, i sequenced a lot bot for studio tracks and live sets. never got disappointed. used it a lot like a synth.
i told the friend to whic i sold it:
"if you ever gonna sell it, ask me first"

machines, like energy, move!

tisk tisk......apple products are devils work.

Hah man! You sold it and I bought mine week ago. It shipped yesterday. When I'm looking at it, I'm a bit scared. THIS THING IS **** MONSER!

yes, it is.
dont be scared. you can start to work on it in a simple way and learn all the triccks with time.
thats one bog thing about the 4k, you dont need to know every dark corner of it to start playng.
compliments, you bought a great machine, the best of modern days mpc's.

using it as a sound module\subtractive synth can be lot of fun. check the threads on this board. there are a lot of skilled producers here. i learnt a lot from these pages.

also: a big thank you to all you knowledge-sharers!

dreadnutz wrote:
u can get the dsi evolver for about 300,- euro used...

I'll trade you a brand NEW Evolver for a MS-20 ANY DAY! MS-20 has a great nasty gritty sound. I would say that
if the 4k is doing nothing and he's using the MS-20 that it was a good deal. And with the trend for old vintage synths,
he'll just be seeing his synth be worth more money, then less money like the 4k's current selling price has shown.

Nice thing about Analog, is that each piece has it's own flavor. Both the Evolver and MS-20 can both get nasty...
but they are each a different type of nasty..... Plus with the MS-20, it gives you a stepping point to move towards
modulars if that is so your incline (like it is for me).

Now would I sell my 4k for a MS-20.. no sireeeeee, but I'm using the 4k. I'd would save up and buy one
But I'm just going to probably go straight modular myself. There's a lot of nice options available now..

Wow, big move. Sorry to see you go, wlll be missed. We all know hardware sequencers and samplers have been far surpassed by software, but it is still tough for hardware people to make the switch to their centerpiece. Wish I could do it, but I just can't stay creative that way. At least you will still have synths to keep your hands on! The synth-like control over the Z engine is one of the main things that keeps me interested in the 4k.

Haven't tried the newer MPDs, but have heard good things. Opinions on the pads seems to vary from user to user, but you can always replace the physical pads if needed. The MS-20 sounds like more fun!

hey guys! glad you shared yer views! i must admit that , even if ableton on a laptop opens up for more and more possibilities, the 4k was much more inspiring as a workstation, i had more the feeling of composing with it.
but i must have all things organized in an economic and functional way!
anyway i'll be around here even without the 4k, coz there is always something interesting to learn and discuss with open minded people here like you two guys.
anyway, if i'll ever make some big money i'll have a greater house and buy another 4k for sure!!! (i obviously have all my multis\programs\seqs\libraries backupped on my hd )

the first two days on the ms-20 is pure lust. im just explorin it and already came up with earth-shakin basses, screaming leads, noisy ambient effects and also some automatic riffing junkie guitar patches! it is very grungy, especially if you tweak both filters(hp and lp) with a fairly high amount of resonance to create a sort of aggressive bp filter sound.
im lovin this black baby!

McSmooth wrote:We all know hardware sequencers and samplers have been far surpassed by software, but it is still tough for hardware people to make the switch to their centerpiece. Wish I could do it, but I just can't stay creative that way.

I partially agree with this statement and I partially disagree with this statement

Specs wise, they have completely blown away hardware. For example, you have all these VSTI synths that
have so many oscillators and so many oscillator waveforms and 8 Envelopes and 8 LFO's and what not... but they
don't sound as good as a Roland SH-2 or a Oberheim OB-1. Those are extremely simple synths when it comes
to synth architecture, but they completely blow away anything digital in regards to the sound itself. If they started with the
sound and built up from there....

Same when it comes to Hardware sequencers. Software/Computer based sequencer completely blow away my MPC 4000
and Sequentix P3 combo in regards to specs. I'm sure a combo of a DAW + Numerology would surpass my setup specs wise,
but where they miss out is in the UI. It doesn't matter how well they make their GUI, it doesn't ever reach the immediacy of
a dedicated UI interface. What most people who use Computer based software (as the all my sequencers are software based
on dedicated hardware) either miss out or don't want, is for their sequencer to be an instrument as well. Most people use
their sequencers to record their instruments, where as a hardware based sequencer can be instrument in itself. You can achieve
it with a computer, but it can be a lot harder. I can generally have my bass line and the beginning of a melody created on my setup
before someone with a computer based setup is able to turn on their system, and load up their programs. Sometimes in my 15 minute
break at work, I'm able to sketch out most what I'm going to lay down that night before I have to head back.

Hardware Samplers definitely have gone the way of the 8 Track, except in Groovebox and MPC line of things and the Workstation market.. Fortunately, there are a few
offerings still around, I could still see a boutique person coming along with something like the V-Machine, something small and cheap
but with a nice interface (similar to something like the iPhone), and using embedded stripped down Linux that just loads up your
Sampler program, and provide some of the more computer only based options to a dedicated interface.

I'm still waiting to see what they do with the LinnDrum II.

So they do surpass what I have in some ways, but in other ways, they completely miss the boat. And that's why people like you and I aren't able to make the switch, and people like Sequentix/Genoq's/Akai and what not are still able to sell their equipment. And People like Dave Smith and Roger Linn can produce a LinnDrum II.



Dave

yes, totally agree with you.
In fact i couldnt decide to sell the 4k up to when i bought the remote zero sl by novation.
then i started puttin my hands back on control. im still far from havin all that i need, a good pad surface for example.
and thats another difference: with a workhorse like an mpc you have a real instrument with each part devoted to different aspects of music production. with software you need to put together different stuff to form something near.

but then again, another problem presents itself: when i started messing with software (and look, i dont use so much vstis, i think the majority of them is overfilled with stuff that only confuses you and as you said, generally they sound like thin and weak imitations) i found out that a lot of tasks that with the mpc where a bit of an headache if not impossible, there where really easy and quick. the immediateness of graphic manipulation of sounds, grooves, automations in example... so i chosen.

but still think a good mix of software and hardware is the killer combo.

regarding vstis and effects, i used to have tons of them on my pc and found out that 95% was useless or not in my taste. now i have a minimal approach to it:
-ableton 7 suite (that already contains a lot of instruments, of which the most interesting being the Operator fm synth and the most useful the Sampler)
-sonic charge microtonic: a brilliant , brilliant drum synth. very few parameters, very intuitive, no samples, only realtime calculations, has a step sequencer, sounds amazing ! really can compete with a lot of hardware drum machines!
-sonic charge synplant: a strange new design synth made to be easy and intuitive to program but with endless different results
-the sonalksis plugins (love especially the tbk series, a filter, a distortion, a compressor, all very simple, one big knob and a few parameters, good sound.)
-the d16 devastor multiband distortion.

obviously all this stuff would be a real pain in the ass to program and tweak realtime with the mouse or to assign control changes to each time. thats where the novation controller comes in, with the automap universal technology.
and i put some real synth along: micromodular, korg wavestation ex and now the lil monster ms-20.

anyway, i still think that all this stuff PLUS a beautyful mpc 4000 besides will be killer! so i absolutely dont think that hardware sequencers\samplers are surpassed, as you told they give you a totally different approach to the music production process. experiment\tweak\play\record\f*ck things up!!!!!

renegadebliss wrote:I partially agree with this statement and I partially disagree with this statement

That was a general statement on my end, my full thoughts would have taken too long to type

Specs wise, they have completely blown away hardware. For example, you have all these VSTI synths that
have so many oscillators and so many oscillator waveforms and 8 Envelopes and 8 LFO's and what not... but they
don't sound as good as a Roland SH-2 or a Oberheim OB-1. Those are extremely simple synths when it comes
to synth architecture, but they completely blow away anything digital in regards to the sound itself. If they started with the
sound and built up from there....

That example doesn't really apply to what I was saying since the MPC isn't an analog synth, but I completely agree on that subject. Many will say the 60 and 3000 has a special sound to them, but I would say the newer MPCs are meant to be more sterile (although drums seem to always bang coming out of any MPC).

Same when it comes to Hardware sequencers. Software/Computer based sequencer completely blow away my MPC 4000
and Sequentix P3 combo in regards to specs. I'm sure a combo of a DAW + Numerology would surpass my setup specs wise,
but where they miss out is in the UI. It doesn't matter how well they make their GUI, it doesn't ever reach the immediacy of
a dedicated UI interface. What most people who use Computer based software (as the all my sequencers are software based
on dedicated hardware) either miss out or don't want, is for their sequencer to be an instrument as well. Most people use
their sequencers to record their instruments, where as a hardware based sequencer can be instrument in itself. You can achieve
it with a computer, but it can be a lot harder. I can generally have my bass line and the beginning of a melody created on my setup
before someone with a computer based setup is able to turn on their system, and load up their programs. Sometimes in my 15 minute
break at work, I'm able to sketch out most what I'm going to lay down that night before I have to head back.

You typed out most of the reasons why I have no desire to switch mainly that it plays like a device or instrument. That is a great point about having stuff done before people could boot their machines! Computers and software are constantly being updated, changed, and have many components to worry about (drivers, conflicts, crashes, etc). More often that not, I just want to lay down some loops or a melody in my head and don't have time for all that nonsense.

Regarding the topic of synths above, I would always prefer starting with a knobby VA over a soft synth even though the soft synths usually sound just as good or better. I find the interface is crucial in regards to creativity. Then an analog knobby synth gives you more of a reason to stay hardware.

Hardware Samplers definitely have gone the way of the 8 Track, except in Groovebox and MPC line of things and the Workstation market.. Fortunately, there are a few
offerings still around, I could still see a boutique person coming along with something like the V-Machine, something small and cheap
but with a nice interface (similar to something like the iPhone), and using embedded stripped down Linux that just loads up your
Sampler program, and provide some of the more computer only based options to a dedicated interface.

Totally. MPCs and other groove based machines will stay around as they make great portable, custom drum machines and phrase samplers. The Z sampler was just about as powerful as hardware samplers got, but were still missing features other hardware samplers had and are left in the dust with new software. On the other hand, the sampler is powerful enough to fufil 95% of common and advanced tasks (as long as you don't need real-time time-stretch). You quickly realize you rarely need 5 15-stage envs, 12 lfos, etc. Editing isn't quite as easy as a hardware synth, but setting up q-link (or CC mapping) at least allows you to get it pretty close.

I'm still waiting to see what they do with the LinnDrum II.

VERY interested to see what comes of that. No doubt it will have some really cool and innovative features, but am not sure how it will compare to MPCs. Have to assume the drum modeling will make it stand out, so the comparison would be more to sequencing (not sure if they are going to do sampling or not yet). I see it being a monster combination of an xBase and a machinedrum with a hint of MPC feel.

hyena wrote:yes, totally agree with you.
In fact i couldnt decide to sell the 4k up to when i bought the remote zero sl by novation.
then i started puttin my hands back on control. im still far from havin all that i need, a good pad surface for example.
and thats another difference: with a workhorse like an mpc you have a real instrument with each part devoted to different aspects of music production. with software you need to put together different stuff to form something near.

A good MIDI interface (or two or three) really is needed to help gain back some control. It seems there isn't really a perfect single controller out there unless you can deal with compromises. The main problem I see with single controllers is that you now have another library of patches to set up and organize... one for each peice of software you want to control. Plus you only have access to one thing at a time unless you start setting up more patches for splits. Still, beats a mouse 10 fold. The automap feature on the novation must really be useful for quick setup.

Some good points about limiting yourself and a nice solid and compact software list. That is another key discipline needed to make the switch I don't quite have. When you have unlimited flexibility, it can be difficult to ever be happy with what you have. Granted that applies for hardware too, but you run out of money a lot faster!

Hyena, I can tell you that I recently bought, and, soon after, sold an Akai MPD32 controller.

Now, to be fair to it, I tried for about eight weeks to get the thing syncing up properly to me setup ( Cubase Sx and Reason, mainly ), but it was a near total disaster. basically, I couldn;t get the Note Repeat to roll in time and I got very odd behaviour with it also when actually in record mode on any track. I followed all the advice I could find on You Tube et al, but no joy at the end of the day. Akai support were about as useful as a 'wet fart in a spacesuit' ...

So, I finally gave up the chost and sold the unit at a $100 loss.

However, I did get feedback from some that were using the unit succesfully with both Logic and Pro Tools, so it's not a total heap of poop ! It just doesn;t seem to like Cubase setups on PC very much ?

Still, it is a bit of a gamble with the MPD32 ... try and research the net for anyone who has it using it with a similar setup to your own - then decide ?!!

Good luck....

thanks guys for your opinions. you are solid as usual!