Multis

I cannot find a direct answer on this but if you have 128 Multis loaded up does it mean you could use all of them at the same time in the same sequence? Example: You have a Multi with nothing but Pianos and another with nothing but drum kits and another with nothing but brass. Would you be able to select and play a program from each in the same sequence at the same time?

Create multi's from programs.

program 1 = drums
program 2 = bass
program 3 = piano
program 4 = strings

The above programs could then be saved as a multi for use with a particular song.

Ekl1p5e wrote:I cannot find a direct answer on this but if you have 128 Multis loaded up does it mean you could use all of them at the same time in the same sequence? Example: You have a Multi with nothing but Pianos and another with nothing but drum kits and another with nothing but brass. Would you be able to select and play a program from each in the same sequence at the same time?

Well, you could use 128 Multi's in a track, but you have to use Multi Program Change to get them change.

I think what you're asking is if, in 1 Multi you have 128 Parts/Programs, if you can access and use all 128 Parts/Programs
in the same seuqence. The answer is yes.

The MPC 4000 has 128 Tracks available. It also has 128 Parts that can be used in a Multi. So it is completely
possible to assign 1 part/program per track and use all 128 Parts and Programs in a Sequence.

You can also split your "Song" into mulitiple sequence, each using their own Multi with 128 parts.

So technically (if your samples aren't very big.....) you could have the Intro have it's Sequence with its' own Multi with 128 parts,
and then the next sequence the chorus, could have it's own Multi and it's own seperate 128 parts/program.
You limit is by 512M of RAM rather then by limitations that the Code Programmers put on you. Much better from my perspective.

You can also access up to 128 parts remotely from a Midi Master Keyboard, by switching Parts/Programs via Program Changes.

Cheers,
Dave

You've all been helpful and I appreciate the help, HOWEVER, one of the big things about getting a question answered on this forum is that people answer every question EXCEPT the one that is being asked. I purposely worded that question for a straight forward response and the answer that I got was that I could use 128 programs in a multi. But I appreciate the time you all took to answer it though. But from a common sense analysis of the answers given, im assuming that I could only use one multi at any given time.

Ekl1p5e wrote:You've all been helpful and I appreciate the help, HOWEVER, one of the big things about getting a question answered on this forum is that people answer every question EXCEPT the one that is being asked. I purposely worded that question for a straight forward response and the answer that I got was that I could use 128 programs in a multi. But I appreciate the time you all took to answer it though. But from a common sense analysis of the answers given, im assuming that I could only use one multi at any given time.

Hmmm.. Why didn't you ask that question then?
Here is the question that you wanted asked:

Ekl1p5e wrote:im assuming that I could only use one multi at any given time.

but here is the question that you asked:

Ekl1p5e wrote:I cannot find a direct answer on this but if you have 128 Multis loaded up does it mean you could use all of them at the same time in the same sequence?

That doesn't ask if you can use 1 Multi at a time, it asks if you can use them all at the same time in a sequence. So instead of it
being at any one instance (which only 1 Multi can be active), the "time" part of "at one time" would be the length of the sequence.
So it essentially is asking if you can use more then 1 Multi in a sequence.

The answer to if you can use more then 1 Multi at a time, is NO.
The answer to if you can use more then 1 Multi in a Sequence is YES. You can use up to 128 Multi's in a Sequence (due to only
128 items available to a program change, since Multi's don't accept Bank Changes)

That's why you got a different answer from me.

You can load up 128 Multi's, and have it so that each bar (or whatever time division you want - tick, beat, bar , 10 bars) in a sequence send a program change, and switches the Multi and that bar the Multi is completely different. And in 128 bars, you've gone through 128 Multi's.
That is completely doable. But in most
cases would just sound like garbage, as if you look at how the Sequences are setup on the MPC 4000, in the "Track" section,
you can choose which part number you want associated with a particular track. So if your Multi 1 had a Piano on Part 1
then when you switch Multis, your next Multi has TR808 on Part 1. Then when you switch Multi's from Multi 1 to Multi 2,
now your sequence that was playing your Piano riff is now clamerring out crazy (not good crazy) 808 beats. The only time
that you would want to switch Mulit's in the same sequence is if you leave the Part selection alone, but have different Mixer,
FX, or Q-Link/Q-Link sequence settings. For example, you can use a Multi change mid sequence to change the 4 FX 's
to a different set of FX's for the Middle part of the song.

So I provided the more practical way to use the feature (why send you down a clammering 808 path) and logical way, which is to
use different Multi's tied to different sequences (all part of the same "song") to be able to achieve this.


If you had simply asked this: "Can you use more then 1 Multi at a time", the answer would have been no.

Cheers,
Dave

Ok thanks I appreciate your response, I apologize if I offended you in any way though.

Ekl1p5e wrote:Ok thanks I appreciate your response, I apologize if I offended you in any way though.

No problem I wasn't very clear either..... if i had said what I said in my initial response, it would have made more sense...


Dave

With all the multi-talk in the forums, I have to bump this....

Why assign your instruments to a multi when you can just assign each program directly to a track? If you have 128 programs loaded and 128 tracks, simply assign a different program to each track if you like.

I heard some people talking about using the multi to layer. Why would you do that? Each program has up to 128 keygroups. Assigning the keygroups to the same range is ideal for layering sounds.

So my question is: does anybody use more than 1 multi and if yes then for what purpose ?

Askia Shaheed wrote:With all the multi-talk in the forums, I have to bump this....

Why assign your instruments to a multi when you can just assign each program directly to a track? If you have 128 programs loaded and 128 tracks, simply assign a different program to each track if you like.

I heard some people talking about using the multi to layer. Why would you do that? Each program has up to 128 keygroups. Assigning the keygroups to the same range is ideal for layering sounds.

So you can do things that current hardware samplers aren't able to do, including the MPC 5000 with OS 2.0.

On the MPC 4000, with 1 Program, you have the ability to use 128 Keygroups and each Keygroup can have 4 Zones.... so each Key can have up to 4 Samples assigned to it triggered for a variety of reasons for a total of 512 samples....

All current MPC products are limited to 4 Zones. If you layer Programs via Multi's, you can have 4,8,12,16 zones assigned
to a pad from a Multi, all responding to different Velocity settings....
So I can have 16 different Velocity settings all triggering 16 different samples.. per pad.... for ALL 128 Keys.
Which can give up to 2048 samples available for a "Program", if you use Multi's to layer your program.

Same can be done just for Zone settings. You might just use 1 sample for all 16 zones, but use a different filter setting
based off of velocity

But the modular like abilty of the 4000, allows one to take it to the extreme. You could technically, have 32 Program
Layered, in the Multil, so that 32 X 4 = 128 (32 programs with 4 zones per key).
Since Velocity goes from 1-128 for it's parameters, you could set it up
so that a seprate zone exists for every Velocity step. So a total of 128 samples available per key for ALL 128 Keys...


Not everyone will need this fine detail. Others might.




Hmm.... You can't assign a Program to a Track on the MPC 4000. The Tracks allow you to select 2 separate "Parts".
"Parts" are Programs that are assigned to a Multi.

A Multi consists of 128 parts. You can assign 1 program to a part. Or even the same program to multiple parts with different Multi settings to change them.

But on the 4000, there is no way to assign a Program to a Track.
You can only assign parts. And parts are part of a Multi. And because of this, there is no way to use the 4000 without
a Multi, it is a requirement.

Cheers,
Dave

shimmyshimmy wrote:So my question is: does anybody use more than 1 multi and if yes then for what purpose ?

I have several answers for this (imagine that ):

1. I use More then 1 Multi in my Live set. Let's say my live set consists of 45 different sequences each representing
a different song. I will also have 45 corresponding Multi's. And each sequence will have an embedded program
change to change the Multi, when the Sequence changes (for example through Next Sequence with Pads) the Multi
gets switched.

2. I use more then 1 Multi in 1 Sequence, if I want to change the 4 FX settings.

So for example, if I have for Multi 1 A. Pitch Shifter B. Tape Echo C. Flange and D. Distortion for 1 Multi
and I have the exact same Parts setup for Multi 2, but I have
A. Reverb Reverse B. Multi Tap Delay C. Phaser + Delay D. Chorus

and in my sequence at lets say bar 64 where my Chorus of the track is, I can embed a sequence change to
change the Multi from Multi 1 to Multi 2, and all 4 FX Settings will change in sync.

3. Similar to item 2 above, but instead of FX, I am using Q-Link
Q-Link settings are stored in Mulit's on the 4000. The Q-Link settings can be changed on the fly (to different destinations)
via Multi's and since Mulit can be changed via Program Changes, you can embed Q-Link settings in the sequence.

4. Similar to item 3. But instead of changing the Q-link settings, I want to change the Q-Link Sequence , sequences. So
If I want to have different Knob settings set up (the sequences) , you can change your "step sequences" selections via
changing the Multi.

That's 4 ways that I use different Multi's....


Cheers,
Dave

Nice . Seems I'm not that stupid. You told me nearly excatly what I was thinking about.

Renegadebliss always comes through


This is my two cents videos helps understand the layering and placement of the programs using multis also.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=KP22Zi2dAh0


Same concept on the 4k

On main page set the track to INT-A Ch:1 for internal programs of the 4k.


Now working strictly from the MULT PAGE press the multi button multi page on the 4k you set the list page set the levels of the programs and outputs, and effects.

Press the second page midi in Multi assign the programs to the same midi channel to stack them, tune them differently by cents to expanded the sounds and set up a program change if you wish.

Press the third page span you can easily set the part of the keyboard you want the bass to play in the lower octave of the keyboard while layering the piano and strings over the upper octaves of the keyboard. Then mute the parts you want to test the sounds or solo the parts to build your own custom patches.

All the time you are playing your midi keyboard controller setting up the Multi.

Once you set up one multi you can say have your drums set up on track 10 as a regular part on 5 different multis but each individual multi with different piano combinations, percussion combinations, string combinations and so on and using qlink or your midi keyboard controller link like renegardebliss said change to new multis at the turn of a hand as the sequence records and record it in just for starters.

So this seems you simply multiply tracks. In math it would be like this: Tracks (up to 128) x Number of multis.
Sry but I'm a student and I don't have MPC in front of me. What about parts? You can have 128 parts no matter how many multis? Or: Parts (up to 128) x Number of multis?
I get a feeling that there is very few people who really understands multis. So many threads about this and so many diffrent answers but it really starting to make sense, at least for me ;p

The way I see it...

Akai's latest sampler has keygroup programs that have 128 keygroups. Even without using a multi, the 128 keygroups can be stacked. So if I wanted to created a brass section patch:

Trombone
Tuba
Baritone
French horn
Trumpet

I assign each instrument 3-6 keygroups within that keygroup program. All the keygroups can be assigned to the same range (or you can create a keyboard split). You still have plenty of keygroups left to layer more sounds if you like. To further shaped the sound, each keygroup has its own filter and panning. Further more, the keygroup also has 4 layers which can be panned and tuned as well. You can play these keygroup programs via drum pads or MIDI. Need program changes? You can program these in the sequencer. What to program effect set changes? You can program or changes these on the fly as needed. The new Q-link more for FXs will record any changes you make effect parameters. You want to change the frequency on a filter? It will record this as automation. You have two layers of 12 Q-link controls (1 for the mixer, 1 for effects).

In MULTI Mode, you have 32 channel multi-timbral operation. You can assign 32 keygroups to 32 midi channels. Or you can assign one or more keygroup programs to the same MIDI channel as another way to layer sounds.

The best part of these newer samplers is that you assign programs directly to a track. They can even receive program changes from external devices to change these programs as you see fit. This is how Akai brought back the workflow of the MPC which changed directions with the MPC 4000. On each track, you simply dial up the program you want. If you want to play an external module connected to MIDI OUTPUT A at the same time you play an internal program, set the track to MIDI 01A.

Now I get the idea of a multi. I am not sure if I even need this in a sampler based upon how the newer MPCs handle programs. But in reality, these MPCs (including the MPC 4000) have 64 voices. So all the layers means nothing when you try to exceed 64 sounds playing at once. Increasing the sample rate....you have even less voices.