Whats the deal with Standard Midi Files!

I used to work on a MV-8000 for awhile and then sold it. I luckily saved everything because I want to revisit some of my older songs. I recently "borrowed" a MV-8800 and loaded up all my sequences, etc. with no problem. I decided to save all the songs as Standard Midi Files so that I could try to play the sequences in the 4k. The result was a WTF! The sequences sounded totally different, the number of tracks wasn't the same, just weird. I used the same synth and identical drum programs that I used on the MV. Did I do something wrong?

I also did some songs on a 1k and 5k but I cant use those on the 4k (just my luck). If I save the sequences that I did on the 1k and 5k as Standard Midi Files, will they play the right way on my 4k?

I thought the whole purpose of SMF was to be able to transfer to different systems that also use midi. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place!

You mean Midi1 and Midi2? Not really, can you elaborate?

Yes I actually knew this. On the MV it was saved as type1, which should include all the necessary info. But my questions remain. Why didnt SMF's from MV work on 4k? and If I save sequences as SMF on the 1k or 5k will they work on the 4k?

You are right in believing that SMF-1 files retain some critical sequence data. There may be a couple of things to keep in mind with midi type 1 files. First of all, if you did not unmute any of the tracks that you may have had on mute in the MV, SMF-1 may not save that data, you would have to unmute them. Second, it might be helpful to remeber that the MPC 4000 will generally load SMF-1 channel data to correspond to the track number - eg. Channel 1 to Track 1, Channel 7 to Track 7 etc. but it will not assign the channel automatically, you would have to do that manually, remembering that the channels generally correspond to the track. Third, if you had multiple tracks on the MV that used the same channel - for instance, if you had a piano sound assigned to channel 1 on Track 1 and then decided to accent what you played on Track 1 with another piano roll using the same channel (Channel 1) but placing it on Track 3, and let's say you did the same thing on Track 9 using the same channel (Channel 1), when you save the sequence as a SMF-1, it will merge all of the channel 1 data from the various tracks (Tracks 1,3, and 9) on to Track 1 in the MPC 4000 or most other sequencers. So it may be helpful to assign distinctive sound arrangements that share the same channel to a totally different or empty channel (if you have some available) so as to have the separation that you need. Hope this helps.

If all else fails, since you have a friend that has a MV8800. You can connect the Midi Out of the 8800 to the Midi on on your MPC 4000.
Assign all MV tracks that you want to record to different midi tracks.

Then sync up the 2, so that when the MV starts the MPC starts. Hold the Rec or Over Dub on the 4000 and then hit Play on the 8800.
If you have the bars setup correctly on the MPC 4000, it should start recording wha the MV is sending out.
Make sure thet T/C is set to OFF.

When it is done, there is an option on the 4000 to split different Midi Channels on 1 Track to seperate 16 different Tracks.
Select that option and you now have the Sequences on your 4000.


Cheers,
Dave

renegadebliss wrote:If all else fails, since you have a friend that has a MV8800. You can connect the Midi Out of the 8800 to the Midi on on your MPC 4000.
Assign all MV tracks that you want to record to different midi tracks.

Then sync up the 2, so that when the MV starts the MPC starts. Hold the Rec or Over Dub on the 4000 and then hit Play on the 8800.
If you have the bars setup correctly on the MPC 4000, it should start recording wha the MV is sending out.
Make sure thet T/C is set to OFF.

When it is done, there is an option on the 4000 to split different Midi Channels on 1 Track to seperate 16 different Tracks.
Select that option and you now have the Sequences on your 4000.


Cheers,
Dave

Wow, now that's what Im talkin bout! Thank you for that explanation. The only problem is that I really didnt borrow the MV. I bought one and then returned it a week later for a full refund. Probably wont be able to do that again, at least not for awhile. I can only record 16 MV midi tracks into my 4k?

Would I have to do this also on the seq I made on the MPC 1k? As opposed saving 1k sequences as SMF and trying to play on the 4k. Would I have the same problem that I was having with the MV...?

ReuBen KinKade wrote:You are right in believing that SMF-1 files retain some critical sequence data. There may be a couple of things to keep in mind with midi type 1 files. First of all, if you did not unmute any of the tracks that you may have had on mute in the MV, SMF-1 may not save that data, you would have to unmute them. Second, it might be helpful to remeber that the MPC 4000 will generally load SMF-1 channel data to correspond to the track number - eg. Channel 1 to Track 1, Channel 7 to Track 7 etc. but it will not assign the channel automatically, you would have to do that manually, remembering that the channels generally correspond to the track. Third, if you had multiple tracks on the MV that used the same channel - for instance, if you had a piano sound assigned to channel 1 on Track 1 and then decided to accent what you played on Track 1 with another piano roll using the same channel (Channel 1) but placing it on Track 3, and let's say you did the same thing on Track 9 using the same channel (Channel 1), when you save the sequence as a SMF-1, it will merge all of the channel 1 data from the various tracks (Tracks 1,3, and 9) on to Track 1 in the MPC 4000 or most other sequencers. So it may be helpful to assign distinctive sound arrangements that share the same channel to a totally different or empty channel (if you have some available) so as to have the separation that you need. Hope this helps.

Thank you also. I actually did have a lot of tracks muted on the MV sequences.

Yeah, you're pretty much in the same situation with all of your MPC 1000 stuff (that is, if the MPC 4000 doesn't read 1K stuff, of course). The midi dump method is a 'fail safe' method that will work in most cases. As Dave said, you really can't go wrong that way, especially if you are not able to quite get the full gist of SMF conversion. I might add that when doing a 'midi dump' (by locking up the two devices and doing a real - time transfer of sequence data) it may be helpful to insert a bar or two in the beginning of the sequence that you are transmitting or from the machine that you are transmitting from. Sometimes the first few notes get lost in a midi dump because of not being absolutely in sync while using MTC, midi clock, or other sync methods. however, if you follow the basic instructions that the forum has left for you about how to properly save and import a SMF-1 file, you should be good and it's a heck of a lot quicker ! Best, Reub.

Ntuition wrote:

Wow, now that's what Im talkin bout! Thank you for that explanation. The only problem is that I really didnt borrow the MV. I bought one and then returned it a week later for a full refund. Probably wont be able to do that again, at least not for awhile. I can only record 16 MV midi tracks into my 4k?

Would I have to do this also on the seq I made on the MPC 1k? As opposed saving 1k sequences as SMF and trying to play on the 4k. Would I have the same problem that I was having with the MV...?

I knew it wasn't the way you were seeking, but it I was mainly giving it as an option, in case the others failed.
You can only do 16 at time. But there's nothing stopping you doing 16 on 1 MPC track, another 16 on another different MPC track.
When you do the "Split each Midi Channel onto it's ownt track, I belive it let's you choose where each track goes to...

Technically if you had an MV, you should be able to put it in "MultiSampler mode" and have the MPC play it's Miid data against
the MV's instruments and it should sound the same. Of course you would have to manually move any "Audio Tracks" from MV
over and Sequence them manually on the MPC to get them to work.


Well, the MV from what I understand, can only export Midi tracks in 1 Standard Midi format, where the MPC 1000 can export in both
type 0 and type 1, so I would think that it would work better.

I'm about to get an MPC 1000 to try out JJOS 2XL, as I asked for the Chord Memory on the MPC 4000 and it was never implemented,
so I"m loveing to try it out. It's a wonder for those of us who don't "Play" our keys. I have a Type of Chord Memory on the P3, but
it's all via Step Programming, not any live, hitting pads and gettting down with the groove. Can't wait to try it out live. Just wish
it would save to the Sequence or Program rather then to Flash Memory...

Ntuition, the option Dave gave is a good one if the other stuff somehow doesn't work for you. As a side note to Dave: I couldn't help but notice that you seem to be from Portland. Are you far from Beaverton ? My girl is actually out there right now. Reub.

or you could load the midi file into a compatible computer sequencer.
and then record from computer to the mpc.