multi/program/part problem

Hi all,

When I try to load a whole folder with two multis, the parts are not loaded into the sequence? I have to select the correct multi afterwards in the multi window to have the correct parts show up. When I use the jog wheel to shift to the next sequence it changes the tracks alright but not the parts like it want it to?

Also, is it possible to save the metrone and the TC setting to a sequence or multi somehow?

Probably newbie questions, sorry :-(
I tried solving the problems to the best of my miserable ability.

Thanx

hey,

Did u write one seq with one multi and the next seq with the second multi,
Reassign the parts/programs to the tracks and it should ok depending on how ya did it?

if ur only using one multi and only need one in memory, dont save unwanted multis or load them up to ease headache.

cant think of any other reason apart from program changes.?

I think TC settings are saved within a allseq&song.all,not sure about a single seqs..test it?
and metronome settings dont need saving,they should be the same as you left them every time u boot up.

yo pixel, if ya're usin' a different Multi for each seq, ya gotta send a bank select + program change at the start of the seq to select the Multi ya wanna use. Ya'd betta leave a blank bar at the start of the seq, 'coz Multis take time to change.
oh yeah, and ya gotta set the Multis to receive bank select, in Multi, put yer cursor on the Multi No and hit the magic WINDOW key.

me thinks TC and metronome r saved in the all seq&songs, I read dat in the doc for v1.50.

aahhh i get what hes saying now,ya want the multi to change on seq change,

this is sloppy when you do it in real time ,I think its much less hassle to just assign the the same prgrams to different parts so u can have a different setting in the multi page for each program but dont have to bother with changing multis,also if ya got a blank bar at the start of the next seq its not gonna do much for the vibe on seq change having a bar gap.

Doctor Beat wrote:yo pixel, if ya're usin' a different Multi for each seq, ya gotta send a bank select + program change at the start of the seq to select the Multi ya wanna use. Ya'd betta leave a blank bar at the start of the seq, 'coz Multis take time to change.
oh yeah, and ya gotta set the Multis to receive bank select, in Multi, put yer cursor on the Multi No and hit the magic WINDOW key.

me thinks TC and metronome r saved in the all seq&songs, I read dat in the doc for v1.50.

Hi Doctor Beat and Reveal - thanx for your replies ;-)

What I have right now is 2 different multis and 2 different sequences.
I want multi 1 to belong to sequence 1 and multi 2 to belong to sequence 2.

When I'm in the main window and select the sequence number and with the cursor and change the sequence number from 1 to 2 for example, the tracks are correct - with the right name of the tracks and the correct tempo and all - but the parts/programs remain the same as they were before, cause the multi of sequence 1 is still selected.
Isn't there a way of doing this automatically instead of having to go to the multi window and select multi 2 from the list?

I tried the following:

I gave multi 1 number 1 in the multi list and multi 2 number 2 in the multi list.
I set pgm change number in the main window to 1 for sequence 1 and 2 for sequence 2. Also - I pressed the window key and set the bank select to "on" on both sequences.

But - this doesn't solve my problem - what am I doing wrong?

Hope this is understandable, tried my best!

Thanx

Could it have something to do with program number?
All my programs is set to "off" in the "Prog.No column in the program list.

Maybe that's my mistake?

Thanx

lo pixel,


I see,when changing multis in real time it wont be a smooth transition,
the only time i would do that is when playing live at the end of a song,so you could just swap seq/song and have a blank bar at the start of the next song with midi bank select message a so the right mutli is selected for u.

If ya working on one song just assign the same programs to different parts.

Page 127&28 of the reference manual covers the workings.....if u change multis mid-song the FX settings will change as well if u use program/bankselect controls.


To do a multi change read on...................
Go to the multi page ,
list(f1),
move the cursor to highlight "multi no."
push the window key,or move jog dial and a window will pop up,

assign each multi to a different number,

select the type of message that will trigger the multi change
=program change
=bank select.(control no. 0)
=off (no midi event will trigger)

choose "bank select"

And also set the multi select channel (*this is the channel u assign to a track in the main page to send bankselect commands)

then in the main page select a track and assign a *internal port and channel to it

push window on pgm change (next to duration in the main page),
turn on bank select in the pgm change field

then assign a msb number to the track
i.e =
MSB 0>>>>=Multi no.1
MSB 1>>>>=Multi no.2
MSB 2>>>>=multi no.3

U need to turn on transmit "program change in this track" to "yes"

when u push play the message is sent and mutli changed,

but u can also insert program changes/MSB control changes(0) etc...at any point of a seq in step edit,by pushing overdub insert,
then scroll through to controll change>>change to 0 or program change etc....

Program changes are along the same lines of thinking but ya have assign programs to numbers in the program list page and then make sure there enabled by pushing the window key on the part list in the multi page.



Hope that helps

Hi Reveal,

Wow thanx for the detailed explanation ;-) !
I tried it, but unfortunately it didn't work for me all the way
:-/

The multi still doesn't change from multi 1 to multi 2.
In the multi list/multinumber selected/press window key menu I set the following:
multi number 1 to multi 1
multi select: BANK SELECT.
But the next is strange: multi select channel on multi 1 is 2A and on multi 2 it's 2A.
If I change the multi select channel on multi 1 to 1A close the window and press the window key again, the 1A changes to 2A by itself??

Or actually what happens it when I try to change the multi select channel on multi 1 and multi 2 so that they have multi select channel 1 on multi 1 and multi select channel 2 on multi 2, it is not possible. I can only set them to the same channel???

In the main window I did the following:

Set pgm change in sequence 1 to 1.
Set pgm change in sequence 2 to 2.
On sequence 1 I have bank select ON, MSB set to 0 and program change set to 1. Also the "transmit program change in this track is set to YES.
On sequence 2 I have bank select ON, MSB set to 1 and program change set to 2. Also the "transmit program change in this track is set to YES.
I did that for all tracks on both sequences.

I don't know if this has any relevance, but loop is on for both sequences and they are 8 bars long.
It doesn't matter to me if I have to wait a full circle of 8 bars before it changes the multi (hence the sloppiness that y'all mention).

Would it help if I made a 3rd sequence in between the 2 that contains the bank select messages?

I think that probably my problem is that I never had a hardware sampler before so I don't know the basics of program changes and bank select messages?

Thanx. I really appreciate your help ;-)

Hi Pixel and others who are interested. I'll try to explain here to you the basics of program changes and bank-select messages.

A program change is a midi message that can be send to an external device or to the internal sampler of the MPC to switch between presets in the external module and between programs (or multis) in the MPC.
A program change message has two values.
1: a channel
2: a program number.

The mpc provides the program change message with a channel according to the output setting you have selected in main mode in the out1 and out2 field. So other than to set the correct output there you do not have to worry about the channel.
The program number is a value between 0-127 (one MIDI byte). In the mpc this is displayed off by one: 1-128. This implies you can switch between 128 programs on one channel with a program change message.

Some external sound modules (if not most) are devided into different banks so there can be more than 128 sounds stored and selected by MIDI. To select a sounds stored in a different bank with a program change message, the correct bank has to be selected first. This is where the bank select message is being used for.
You can compair a multi to a bank filled with programs. Therefor I always use a bank select message to change between multis and a program change message to switch between programs within that multi.

A bank select message consists of two times 128 values (two bytes). Two continuous controller (CC) number, 0 and 32, are used.
A controller also has a channel (again provided by the MPC according to the output setting) and a value. The combination of the two values of both control numbers determines which bank is being selected. The maximum of 128x128=16384 banks can be selected like (should be enough eh? )

CC:0 is the so called MSB (Most Significant Byte = biggest value. Also called coarse)
CC:32 is the LSB (Least Significant Byte = smallest value. Also called fine).
Most devices do not need more resolution and only use the coarse byte (MSB). Also the MPC4000: To select between Multi 1 and 2 use the MSB (= CC:0).

You have two options when it comes to selecting a multi with a bank select message from within a sequence. Either you use the Program change field in main mode (like Reveal explained above) or you insert a CC:0 message into a track using the step editor. With both options you have to route one of the two track-outputs to the Internal channel you have selected in the multi number window. Dont forget this. Give the multis a number and set the multi select to bank select (see above).

The disadvantage of the second option is that the message is being send on every loop. This could slow things down a bit. But it can be useful when you want to select a different mult in the middle of a sequence e.g. With the first option the messages are only sent on sequence change or after play start is being pressed.


When you want to use the program change field (option 1) you have to set both a program change number (not off) and you have to turn the bank select ON and set the MSB to 0 for multi1 and 1 for multi2 etc...


Here is to insert a bank select message in step edit (the second option):
- Go to step edit
- select the location where you want to insert the multichange
- press Record/Overdub.
- press insert [F6]
- select Control Change
- select number 0: bank sel MSB
- select value 0 for multi1 / 1 for multi2 etc...


When you use this second option make sure the program change is sent before any other data on the same location in the track. You can check this in step edit.

When it sais something like:
001.01.000 38/a07 D: 240 V:127 T:0
001.01.000 C: 0-bank select MSB: 1

The note is being sent to the other multi because it is sent before the multi change. You can change the order by moving the note to 002.01.000 and back to 001.01.000 e.g.

resulting in:
001.01.000 C: 0-bank select MSB: 1
001.01.000 38/a07 D: 240 V:127 T:0

I don't know in what order the MPC reads it's tracks but I guess it's from 1 to 128. So in that case, for the same reason, it would be best to use track one for the bank-select and program change message. Any data that follows will be send to the correct multi. But that is just my theory.

It has become quite a long story so I hope this helps you guys out.

Cheers!!

lo pixel ,

good looking bleepfreak,ididnt know ya posted up opps 10mins late...lol ,good info, now i know exacly what LSB does,16384banks ...hahahah

but theres one thing above i can get multi changes to work from the pgm window with the prgram change number set to off ?i found only having transmit program changes off stops the mutl from changing?

1.Alll mutlis have the same midi receive channel,this is the channel the MSB gets sent to from a midi track in the main page.i.e 1A

2. each has multi a different multi number that u assign in the mutli list page,note multi receive channels and mutli numbers two different things,
assign a differnet multi number for each multi.
i.e pixels multi =multi no 1
pixels live multi=multi no 2
enable bank select,

3,in the main page assign a empty tracks output as >>>INT-A channel 1
now this tack will output messages to the midi receice channel set in step 1

4.still in the main page ,push window on PGM,turn on bank select,turn on transmit program changes,when MSB is set to 0 ,
that will select the mutli set to multi number 1,(pixels mutli)
When MSB is set to 1 that will select multi number .2 (pixels live multi)

MSb 0>>>mutli no 1
msb 1>>>mulit no 2


you do this for each sequence you want a multi change at the start,u can only use one multi at a time.

,if you want to trigger a multi change mid seq ,you dont need to do step 4 above ,just make sure tramsmit programs changes from this channel is enabled in the pgm window,main page

to do it mid-seq>>>>>>

go to step edit
push overdub
,push insert ,
select type as control change,
set contol number as 0 Msb ,
select at time,
insert it,
now change View to control change in step edit
highlight the MSb message ya just inserted,
Change the MSb number to the multi ya want to select(like in the main page step 4.),

Program changes are nearly the same ,

in the multi page move the cursor to the part collum in the mutli list page,push window and make sure program changes are ON

assign programs to numbers in the program list page

make sure the track is set to transmit pgm changes the in the pgm window,main page

,use the pgm window in the main page to change programs at start of a seq or go into step edit again and this time ,overdub,insert,program change any where in a seq,view programs changes or all ,and edit the program change number as u like.




thanks

R

for me to understand can u answer one question, how many multis can be used at the same time ,ie.track one multi one , track 2 multi 2, track 3 multi 5. is that possible?

strongarmmusic wrote:for me to understand can u answer one question, how many multis can be used at the same time ,ie.track one multi one , track 2 multi 2, track 3 multi 5. is that possible?

lo,

u can only use one multi at a time ,your selecting the multi to be used by the sequence.


Hths

R

Reveal wrote:

strongarmmusic wrote:for me to understand can u answer one question, how many multis can be used at the same time ,ie.track one multi one , track 2 multi 2, track 3 multi 5. is that possible?

lo,

u can only use one multi at a time ,your selecting the multi to be used by the sequence.


Hths

R

but i can change multis as the sequence changes right , i got it so im not shorting my self cause i dont use program change,just build my programs to the way i need through out the song

yiippiee!

thanx bleep and ravael for your detailed explanations! and all the others for asking! its all clear here now!