No Global MIDI track delay offset on MPC 4000

The biggest downside to the MPC 4000 is lack of a global MIDI Delay offset and Track Delay. The problem is every different piece of MIDI kit has its own I/O latency or lag and you want to delay all your MIDI modules so they trigger at the same time as your slowest responding MIDI module by delaying their track delay times. Then you to globally offset your MIDI delay so for all MIDI ports so they fire in time with your sequencers metronome. There is now way to this with the MPC 4000 except using the shift timing field to move events earlier or later by ticks in the timing correct window which is not really a workaround. The only way I have been able to lick this problem is to use the track delays on my panasonic Ramsa DA-7 to shift audio by milliseconds.
So my dream of just using my MPC and my analog synths through an analog mixer is a pipe dream and I'm still forced to listen to converted audio. Boo Hoo!

how bout copping a cheapo rm1x?

You don't seem to understand. As good as the MPC 4000 is, it is lacking. A pre roll is only useful if you are syncing to MTC of MIDI clock. The issue here is that all MIDI gear has a different lag time from when the sequencer sends out a note on command to the MIDI module sending out audio. Virus 8ms...MoPhatt 6ms...The MPC is sample accurate when the sequencer is triggering off its internal drum samples...no lag. Now the kick triggers perfectly on each beat every the bar...if you wanted to trigger a bass sound on each beat of the bar to an external MIDI instrument say the Virus its sound would be 8ms after the kick. The way to keep them triggering at the same time would be to delay the MPC kick track by 8ms...understand what I'm saying. Now you have another MIDI module say the EMU E4 which takes about 10ms to sound off and you see that there is no way to keep all the instruments locked perfectly to a grid. Mind you all this can be done in Logic 9, so its nothing new I'm talking about. A very easy feature to implement in software but alas the MPC 4000 OS is at a dead end.

you need "innerclocks" timing device Pugsly.


peace,
Ian

That stuff is all for keeping more than one sequencer locked tightly together...not what I'm talking about here. Thanks anyhow.

Are you daisy chaining the devices?

If you aren't then it seems strange.
Older devices were known for adding delay but not more modern units, have never seen the 4k add noticeable delay to the triggering of MIDI devices.

Logic has this feature to compensate for the power (or lack of) in your computer setup and interface.
Same as the Ramsa had it to allow for delay it added with it's processing of things, the Yamaha mixer have it as well.

I would have to say if you are getting noticeable delay the 4k using the individual MIDI channels you might have a suspect 4k.

One last thing, I always thought those numbers you quoted were in reference to delay added when you pass MIDI through them to another device not response time.

ntalec wrote:Older devices were known for adding delay but not more modern units, have never seen the 4k add noticeable delay to the triggering of MIDI devices.

Lots of older gear actually has less delay, still wouldn't say they all have more or less.. depends.
..Have not encountered this delay problem myself, and I sometimes trigger > 7 synths & samplers, and also sync to other sequencers.
It takes just one device in a chain to kill your timing. Best to figure out the gear that has the worst delay, either take them out of the chain and connect via the other midi outs, or put them at the end of your chain/chains.

The thing I'm talking about is only really a problem when you don't have these pro options because it is a fact of life when working with different MIDI modules. Without MIDI track delays and all MIDI output delay its impossible to trigger a kick within the MPC whilst triggering a kick in a DM pro on the same beat without flaming, or layering different basslines from different gear...It's the nature of the beast. That's why these options exist on Logic 9 ,Cubase and Pro Tools. If you don't layer tight rhythmical parts from different modules, you would never notice it. But calibrating you MIDI system is very important if you want tight production when using MIDI modules. Check out a video on http://www.macprovideo.com called Logic Latency Toolbox and you will understand what I'm ranting about.

Peace

I've done that kind of layering all the time.. no flanging problems at all. I've layered kicks in the mpcs with kicks in my RS7000, layered snares in the mpc with snares in an S1100, S950, SP12 ... all with none of these problems... Granted all of those seem to have very good response times... But there you go.

Just seems you are making assumptions on how others may work or use in their setup.

I will say it again, they have that option to compensate for delay they induce not because it some type of unavoidable standard.

It's really interesting because the 4k is the only MP that separates the internal engine from the sequencer and treats it like a external device.
It triggers the sound engine like it's an external MIDI module.
All other MPs have the sequencer/sound engine as one and then external MIDI.

@szr, I was referring to some of the early MIDI gear.
A lot of early MIDI devices struggled with MIDI.
It was part of the reason why a lot of people never left CV/Gate for their control.

If the MPC 4000 had an all MIDI output delay and independent real time track delay for each track and throw in a driver for an 8 out 8 in USB MIDI interface, it would have been a machine of the GOD'S. I would have turned my back on software sequencers PERIOD!!! With what I spent on my Mac Pro, software, audio card, MIDI interfaces, plugins, I would have 2 MPC 4000's a Lilo 24, a bunch of analog eq's some Fx and synthesizers, samplers and Romplers. I would have been in analog heaven. But alas the MPC 4000 remains only hint of its true glory thanks to Akai Unprofessional.

I have used the blue 4k to drive lots of synth at the same time as well as using it with things like the MPU101 for CV/Gate or the Kenton boxes for the Juno 60 with no delay problems.
Used it with lots of old synths as well as new synths without any delay problems.

Could be you have a 4k with issues or maybe you are trying to do some high tempo stuff that is bogging down?