MPC4000 Timing Issue Put Very Simply

The following is done with no sync; no timecode whatsoever

I record 8 bars of MPC click track to an audio track in Pro Tools. I then tab to transient the first click of each 2 bars loop, and put each two bar loop on top of eachother using different audio tracks.

The clicks DO NOT ALWAYS LINE UP. Sometimes they are way off; sometimes they are close. Sometimes some are dead on, sometimes others are dead on, etc etc.

Please help. Please advise. Tell me why this is the "most accurate sequencer..."

I have pics as well I can upload if really neccesary

thx

I can't explain why, but ever since I started tracking out by ADAT and S/PDIF I haven't really had timing issues.

Hey Weapon,
you track out individual sounds through your SPDIF? Please explain the procedure (how many tracks etc.). With SPDIF only being two tracks this seems like a long process for multiple individual sounds. Or is there some sort of SPDIF track splitter?

I think tonight I am going to do my own timing test with the 4000. I bought it because of the superior timing I had heard about. Then I realized that midi clock only comes out of one midi output and not all at the same time.(at least that is what I ham reading in the manual) I haven't recorded anything yet. I am still reading the manual before I get into it.
I also got a Edirol UM550 midi patcher so that I can have 5 midi clocked outputs. I read the innerclock system website and they got me all paranoid about timing....when truthfully my music was sounding just fine to my ears when I was going through several devices and their respctive midi thru's. Sometimes I did notice a drift when my fantom S, or the VS2000 was the master. I never zeroed in on the exact unit that was slightly out of sync.
I only use Midi Clock and have never tried MTC.
A few people that have commented in here and in other forums or on youtube have stated that the MPC4000's great timing is only when using it's internal timing on the sounds you play in it...not so much when it comes to running other pieces of gear.
So far I like what I am reading and learning. Really soon I will put my own finding in the public sphere with a simple youtube video.
Let me know if I have the midi clock out thing wrong.
Cheers,
Ian

The 4 k has better timing than me.Ask a computer,,,,,

Ian Canefire wrote:Hey Weapon,
you track out individual sounds through your SPDIF? Please explain the procedure (how many tracks etc.). With SPDIF only being two tracks this seems like a long process for multiple individual sounds. Or is there some sort of SPDIF track splitter?

I think tonight I am going to do my own timing test with the 4000. I bought it because of the superior timing I had heard about. Then I realized that midid clock only comes out of one midid output and not all at the same time.(at least that is what I ham reading in the manual) I haven't recorded anything yet. I am still reading the manual before I get into it.
I also got a Edirol UM550 midi patcher so that I can have 5 midi clocked outputs. I read the innerclock system website and they got me all paranoid about timing....when truthfully my music was sounding just fine to my ears when I was going through several devices and their respctive midi thru's. Sometimes I did notice a drift when my fantom S, or the VS2000 was the master. I never zeroed in on the exact unit that was slightly out of sync.
I only use Midi Clock and have never tried MTC.
A few people that have commented in here and in other forums or on youtube have stated that the MPC4000's great timing is only when using it's internal timing on the sounds you play in it...not so much when it comes to running other pieces of gear.
So far I like what I am reading and learning. Really soon I will put my own finding in the public sphere with a simple youtube video.
Let me know if I have the midi clock out thing wrong.
Cheers,
Ian

I use ADAT & S/PDIF. 8 channels of ADAT and L/R for S/PDIF...that's 10 digital outs.

I did notice a glitch at the beginning. For instance if I have a 8 bar sequence. I track it into my DAW as 16 bars. 1-9 would be a glitch...9-17 would be a smooth loop. It's not a big deal really..just cut the first 8 and keep the 2nd.

With the analog outs..mostly always a glitch. There has to be a workaround though.

I just recorded 48 bars and it gets sooo off sync, getting more so and more so the longer I record. it RUSHES like a MF, and I knew this. It starts being off by 4 and 8 ms, but by the time I get to the 49th bar it is off by 620 MS. Imagine if I kept recording...

My 1000 NEVER did this (although this thing sounds much better).

litmus test:


0
5996
11996
17996
23996
29996
35992
41992
47992
53992
65992
71988
77988
83988
89984
95984
101984
107984
113984
119984
125980
13980
137980
143976

etc etc.

PLEASE HELP

anyone else recorded long sequences NOT getting timing issues?

Tell me OP

Did you send the MPC midi clock from Pro Tools or any other DAw or did you record straight in with using only the 4ks internal clock

FACT: THe 4k is the tightest MPC of them all. It has a max deviation of 1 sample @ 1/16th notes. DO you read that? THats 1 sample away from being sample accurate (A Daw is sample accurate). No one on earth could possibly hear that deviation of 1 sample.

BUT if you strap some dodgy midi clock from your Daw to your MPC the MPCs excellent clock is now controlled by a drunken sailor, especially if its a USB interface your using.


Ive tested this machines timing inside out and its really quite amazing. This machine is so accurate you can record your song without any midi clock, just set your daw to the same tempo and fly in the parts in one at a time. Move them so they all match up and I guarnatee you that they will be hitting your Daws grid line

If your getting such bad timing your clearly doing something wrong. Dont be an amateur, wok it out. Im telling you NOW this MPC is the tightest one of them all and that includes the 3000 - (by a couple of samples only). But thats the the facts

Check innerclock systems website. Look under Litmust test and check out the supberb timing of the MPC4k - then check it with something like a TR909.




Heres the Limtmus test but also go to the site. Look at the numbers, The difference between them is the deviation Im talking about about IE notes shifting. The thing is amazing at timekeeping. The only really strange part I found here was that in song mode its much more sloppy (well, if you want to call 12 samples sloppy) unless you have an innerclock sysnc Gen which brings it down to 2 samples - which of course I do.

http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20 ... itmus.html


Akai: MPC-4000/OS Version 1.71

This Test: Pattern Mode/Cycle - Internal Sync

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 5999

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
1 Samples [0.02ms]

Litmus Ranking: 5/5

This Test: Song Mode - Internal Sync

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
6000/ 6000/ 5996/ 6001/ 6000/ 5999/ 5996/ 6003/ 5999/ 6000/ 5994/ 6004/ 5999/ 5999/ 5995/ 6004

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
11 Samples [0.23ms]

Litmus Ranking: 5/5

This Test: Pattern Mode/Cycle - External Sample Accurate Midi Clock

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
6000/ 5998/ 5999/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 6000/ 5999/ 5999/ 6001/ 5998

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
3 Samples [0.06ms]

Litmus Ranking: 5/5

This Test: Song Mode - External Sample Accurate Midi Clock

Number of samples [48 kHz] between consecutive Sixteenth Notes:
5999/ 5999/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5998/ 6000/ 5998/ 5999/ 6000/ 6000/ 5999/ 5998/ 6000/ 5999/ 6000

Maximum variation between any two consecutive Sixteenth Note intervals:
2 Samples [0.04ms]

Litmus Ranking: 5/5


MPC4k TIMING GETS A 5/5 EVERY TIME

Very interesting site!

Labcoats - Interesting stuff.. I noticed the results you posted were taken from a series of 16th beats/notes (i'm guessing) from JUST 1 bar??
Whereas Drumatix has initially recorded 8 bars in the mpc, and then later on 48+ bars, claiming the notes are drifting more and more as time (bars) increase.

This whole thread has got me wondering what the truth is, i want to actually do the test over many bars like he has but i cant i have no DAW atm.
Could you do me a HUGE favor and try your test over MANY bars, (recording one longgg-ass sequence in the mpc) to finalise this matter once and for all.

Its all good Labcoats (i have faith now! ) check this thread from Ian :
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=155193&p=1457321#p1457321

Hey Labcoats,

Thanks for being defensive and calling me an amateur (you should learn proper spelling before doing that at least). Did you read the first words in my post? NO SYNC WHATSOEVER.

MY MPC (I'm not saying yours, I don't make assumptions, and I also don't call people names) IS WAY OFF. I am a professional engineer, I know what I'm doing. I've owned other MPC's.

I'm trying to figure out if this is a problem with my specific MPC. I don't give a **** about the MPC being this or that, which one is the best, etc. I don't have time. I just know what I need from it regarding my session work.


Thanks so much

Dramatix04 wrote:The following is done with no sync; no timecode whatsoever

I record 8 bars of MPC click track to an audio track in Pro Tools. I then tab to transient the first click of each 2 bars loop, and put each two bar loop on top of eachother using different audio tracks.

The clicks DO NOT ALWAYS LINE UP. Sometimes they are way off; sometimes they are close. Sometimes some are dead on, sometimes others are dead on, etc etc.

Please help. Please advise. Tell me why this is the "most accurate sequencer..."

I have pics as well I can upload if really neccesary

thx

perhaps your ProTools sucks?

I have had the same issue WITH SYNC, its the midi jitter thats the problem. Now I use a sync gen by Innerclock systems.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=153126

Reset the machine see if it makes any difference, check the CPU utilisation. Maybe something is ****. The internal midi of the MPC should be tight.

I know you said you're not using sync, what happens if you do use sync DAW master to MPC and use beat clock. Is it any worse or better?

Best is to take your MPC to somewhere u can test another unit side by side. Rent one or ask a buddy. Good luck and hope u can work this out sometime soon.