Exchange tips and tricks for the Akai MPC4000
By Sinius Wed May 10, 2023 3:31 pm
What i am thinking is of that:

Reduce the gain of the MPC (programs /main out) - so that the CPU does not have to work so hard.
And use a preamp for make up gain... - to get a less muddy sound...

It´s all about gain - Is that a good idea?
(I am not thinking of tubes and such to make a sound - mybe later a Warm Audio WA-2MPX)

A first test with a cheap Behringer Ultragain V2 preamp didn´t have any effect - at least to my ears...

Cheers
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By Telefunky Wed May 10, 2023 4:21 pm
I use a TAB V357 as an instrument preamp/DI, a Telefunken V676a as mic pre and a modified V357 as headphone amp.
To be precise those are connected to Pro Tools 5 TDM, converted by a 888/24 and delivered via Adat to the MPC. Dedicated master clock by a Mutec MC7.

It‘s all about sound and I don‘t care much about specs, love the headphone out :smoker:
(the V357 is an impedance converter with 20dB of gain and transformer balanced output in the 20 Ohm range)
By Sinius Wed May 10, 2023 4:46 pm
Jesses... :-)
Sounds tasty

Would be great if you could describe a short history of your setup-development concerning the MPC4K.
(You didn´t buy a MPC4k and the next day all the stuff above - did you!?)

My setup is: MPC4K- into the SSL Fusion with Trident-filter-inserts - into AbletonLIve.
My technicals skills are minor and so is my sound: Kind of weak and still muddy - and i am thinking it is my "gainstaging and mixing" in the MPC itself.
My samples are OK...
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By Telefunky Wed May 10, 2023 8:07 pm
In fact all gear existed before I added the 4k.
My first „system“ was a Creamware Scope (still in use) and I bought a V357 on eBay just because the text mentioned „input impedance 3 MOhm“, which made me think it may be useable as an electric bass DI. :hmmm:
(back then such gear was quite affordable)
With all seriousness: it simply blew me away... and that was my entry into vintage broadcast modules, adding a couple of micpres, monitor amps, N324 power supply and a rack mount. And every V357 below 100€ that crossed my way.
You have to diy cabling of the modules, but more important: recap (!) and match the low output impedance to current line inputs. A V676a connected straight to an audio card, will deliver rubbish, the transformers must be loaded with 150-300 Ohm.
No phantom power by default. That‘s why racked modules are so expensive, it‘s a lot of work.

Anyway, my Pro Tools history is similar: couldn’t resist a Mix24 system (2 DSP cards, cables and a 882/20 io converter for $200. At 1st glance the GUI looked ugly, but it worked surprisingly well. Added DSP cards and io whenever a cheap offer appeared .

Scope and PT are connected via Adat, with a Mutec as clock master (essential) which also improves the Digidesign converter performance.

I made a MPC test flight with a Studio, liked it (but not the direction into which Akai was driving the software), so it was clear it had to be one of the classics.
A 2000xl would have been enough, but the 4k with Adat and 4 Midi outs seemed like the ideal link between the 2 DSP systems.
It fully matched expectations and as a bonus I really like the technical design of the machine. :smoker:

The only grain of salt atm is it‘s placement on which I‘m still working...
There‘s also a MacMini M1 (Audient ID22) and a couple of iPads (iConnectAudio4+), some outboard gear, let alone the Alesis BRC to control the virtual Adats in Scope by hardware to have an alternative recording path.
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By Telefunky Wed May 10, 2023 9:13 pm
Sinius wrote:My setup is: MPC4K- into the SSL Fusion with Trident-filter-inserts - into AbletonLIve.
My technicals skills are minor and so is my sound: Kind of weak and still muddy - and i am thinking it is my "gainstaging and mixing" in the MPC itself.
My samples are OK...

Tbh I‘m not a big fan of SSL and their „driving“ devices (remembering a horrible preamp with that feature).
But aside from circuits you may reconsider the strategy of a master processor in general.
If the sources are right, there isn‘t much needed at the final stage (at least for someone not interested in loudness battles).
I usually throw something like FabFilters ProL2 on the output and that‘s about it.
(using moderate settings, no squashing)

But I‘m really picky with channel content, in particular room effects. They must match the source.
I avoid compression to control signal level, if it‘s applied then for character and at a prominent location.
(instead I frequently use the ProL2 approach with even more moderate settings to get track level/impact right before it even enters the mix bus. I pre-process most track content)

Similar with EQ: sources are choosen for their specific content and I‘d rather pick a different mic for a guitar or a bass with different strings instead of twisting a filter.

I prefer different processors instead of plugins from the same origin.
That‘s why I have 2 DSP systems and still some outboard (Lexicon Vortex, Intellifex, SRV2000, SPX90).
I could buy Valhalla Delay (phantastic), but I already have all their reverbs, so that job goes to the Vortex with it‘s crappy fixed point DSP.

As you may guess I don‘t mix in the 4k, which isn‘t even latency compensated internally (iirc from testing of the fx board).
If you use that without paying attention it may in fact ruin a mix under certain conditions.
But I wouldn‘t expect the engine to be generally inferior than most current DAWs.
It‘s a kind of vintage design, though, that may collide with some „modern“ sounds... which is a completely different topic (or matter of taste).

None of this is any kind of rule, but just what happened to be „my style“ or mode of operation.
By Sinius Thu May 11, 2023 8:17 am
Telefunky wrote:In fact all gear existed before I added the 4k.
It fully matched expectations and as a bonus I really like the technical design of the machine. :smoker:

and i like what i see, so i like to operate it...

To my ears the 2000Xl sounds the same - had compared it side by side!

"The only grain of salt atm is it‘s placement on which I‘m still working..."
Me too :-)

"As you may guess I don‘t mix in the 4k, which isn‘t even latency compensated internally (iirc from testing of the fx board).
If you use that without paying attention it may in fact ruin a mix under certain conditions."

Ups, thank you for this information!!!

... and thank you 4 taking time!!!
By Sinius Thu May 11, 2023 8:25 am
"But aside from circuits you may reconsider the strategy of a master processor in general."

Did not mention that i use the MPC4k as a standalone hardware synthesizer and midirecodring device.
Consequently i aksept the old-school touch, but want improve the "punch".

You can make the 4k a very nice sounding wavetable synthesizer - i use klassic analog sound samples of synthesizer i used to have...
and i do not miss them :-)
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By Telefunky Fri May 12, 2023 4:26 pm
Sinius wrote:... Consequently i aksept the old-school touch, but want improve the "punch".
You can make the 4k a very nice sounding wavetable synthesizer - i use klassic analog sound samples of synthesizer i used to have...
and i do not miss them :-)

I listened to some of the Soundcloud tracks and consider most of the mixes nice, lean and not pretending, focussed on sound, probably your „modular“ heritage :-D
So the „missing punch“ attribute may rather apply to parts more in the background (which you might intend to be slightly more prominent :hmmm: )

In my setup it doesn‘t matter if I resample processed parts or simply leave tracks in the DAW (that‘s why I never bothered about mixing on the 4k)
If your use is strictly standalone, then process-resample may be more appropriate.

As mentioned the most simple way (imho) to give a part more „impact“ (without changing sound character) is to increase the perceived loudness with something like FF ProL2.
(I actually use SAW Studio‘s Levelizer (same process), but FF is more prominent)
The main aspect is NOT to use it for maximum final loudness, but to optimize a single track’s impression.
It‘s much simpler than a compressor and has no side effects at all, the sound just gets more presence/impact. Set threshold and target loudness and print the track.
(I usually do this as the final step after cut/cleaning a new record)

You may try Anwidasoft‘s L1V (demo) to check the method out by ear (it has no graphic support), but it‘s performance is technically better than the Levelizer I use.
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By Telefunky Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:31 pm
All German broadcast gear is transformer balanced at the output stage and extremely sensitive to load impedance.
In fact such modules „fail“ if connected to line inputs (5-15 kOhm) because they expect a load in the 150-300 Ohm range.
An impedance way too low doesn‘t work either.
If I plug in Sennheiser IE4 earbuds (instead of the usual AKG K601) into the V357 the sound is totally tinny.

The V672 is a general purpose amp that can be altered in several ways for different applications.
The version offered is 672/2, can‘t check specs atm because the respective doc site is currently offline.
It may be opamp based, while the original release was a discrete design (single transistors, which generally score higher in value).

Iirc for summing they used a design called zero Ohm lines, driven by dedicated modules with lots of transformers...

I‘m not a fan of the Goldmike because it‘s an opamp design with a driving tube after the input stage, but that may be a matter of taste (or psychology) :mrgreen:
Let your ears decide...
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By Telefunky Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:07 pm
Definitely. But the rack with the 2 V672/2 is ready to go, it‘s just not fully clear what‘s under the hood. Except that it‘s not a mic preamp.
(a lot of them are altered to be mic preamps)
But you probably want a line level device anyway.

In that case you may also consider to insert just a quality balancing transformer between gear output and recording input. Results can be stunning, but don‘t have to... :hmmm:
(it depends on the individual circuit, but at least you can take advantage of balanced lines)
It‘s expensive, though, but of course less than 2 amp channels.

You may rent a unit for 55€ per weekend here to get an impression of the sound:
https://www.echoschall.de/en/outboard/p ... reamp.html
Worth the expense (but highly dangerous because it might spoil your taste forever) :shock: :mrgreen: