If the OS development is slow... make it Open Source!

boomspot wrote:cool. you guys can program while the rest of us make music.

Jeah, jeah. jeah!

I'm all for it.....making music on your OS, that is. If such a thing would happen.

There are two entirely different things being discussed. The first is pushing Akai into open-sourcing the MPC4K OS so that it can be maintained by an open-source group. The second is to write an alternative MPC4K OS from scratch.

I'm not much interested in a from-scratch OS development. Building a solid OS from scratch for a product like this is a full-time undertaking for a good-sized team. Doing it by reverse-engineering the platform only makes it that much harder. I wish anyone well who tries it, but I doubt many people will risk their music-making by using such an open OS.

As for getting Akai to put the existing OS into the public domain, it depends above all on Akai/Numark, and it would have to begin with a conversation with them, IMO.

-illiac

I too have been wondering if an Open Source project is the only way the bloody MPC4000 is ever going to achieve its full potential.

I am not a programmer, but I am a professional technical author.
I would relish the chance to work on the MPC4000 documentation, for free, under a GPL.

Most of the main docs were produced in Adobe FrameMaker -
I'd jump at the chance to work on these if only Akai would release
the .fm files!
(The only main exception is that Ak.Sys user guide, which
was done in Word)

The first main task, as I see it,
would be to produce a new version of the MPC4000 Reference Manual,
which incorporated all the changes from those dozen or so "OS Addendum" update PDFs into one single new manual.
Over a year ago, I circulated an annotated PDF of the v1.0 Reference Manual, marking up all the changes required for the OS updates;
I circulated to Akai too.
Got f*ck all response though as usual.

Once all that info was actually in one place,
we could begin looking at making the docs less encyclopaedic and more user-friendly.


But yeah - someone needs to get on the phone to Numark...

Renich wrote:We are trying to turn the MPC experience into a happy one... hehe. A better world for MPC-4000 users

i suggest that if youre experiencing unhappy times with your expensive white machine, you better sell it instead of making a new OS

By the way, it was Steve Howell of http://www.hollowsun.com
who wrote the Ak.Sys user manual.

Well, as I said, it is not only about programming, we need help too!

Here are some suggestons:

1. Tell everyone that there is this OpenMPC project going on. You never know who might get interested.

2. Think about your talents for a while and how could you help us promote, develop or realize this project. Even insisting to akai via email would count as valuable help. Remember, we still need to convince akai to support us.

feline1 wrote:I too have been wondering if an Open Source project is the only way the bloody MPC4000 is ever going to achieve its full potential.

I am not a programmer, but I am a professional technical author.
I would relish the chance to work on the MPC4000 documentation, for free, under a GPL.

Most of the main docs were produced in Adobe FrameMaker -
I'd jump at the chance to work on these if only Akai would release
the .fm files!
(The only main exception is that Ak.Sys user guide, which
was done in Word)

The first main task, as I see it,
would be to produce a new version of the MPC4000 Reference Manual,
which incorporated all the changes from those dozen or so "OS Addendum" update PDFs into one single new manual.
Over a year ago, I circulated an annotated PDF of the v1.0 Reference Manual, marking up all the changes required for the OS updates;
I circulated to Akai too.
Got f*ck all response though as usual.

Once all that info was actually in one place,
we could begin looking at making the docs less encyclopaedic and more user-friendly.


But yeah - someone needs to get on the phone to Numark...

Whoa, so you did put the info together? That's a lot of work! I congratulate you!

I am happy to see that there are some that care. Thanks for the things you've done and are willing to do.

I am on it. I think that I could talk to them, but I need some base arguments and some plan, so I think we should start elaborating a plan or something. I can set up a blog or something so we can develop the plan.

For the time, I will be at irc://freenode/openmpc

I will be there from 9:00 - 15:30 (GMT -05:00)

Yeah - previously, I'd uploaded that PDF to the MPC4000 YahooGroup file area,
but the last time I updated it (for OS 1.70),
I couldn't get it to re-upload without timing out,
so it's not online anymore :-/
Maybe I'll put it on my own site.



Well like I said, I'd be happy to work on the MPC4000 docs. I would suspect Steve Howell of HollowSun might well contribute too.
And I'm sure you'll find enough programmers who be keen to work on it.

Really, this OS is crying out for an Open Source approach.
Since its launch in 2002, the MPC4000 OS's have been PLAGUED by LUDICROUS bugs and oversights, which users spotted within HOURS of their release.
With an open source development model, the kind of testing and transparency that's possible would surely put an end to this kind of crap.


I think it might be an idea to contact http://www.hollowsun.com
since Steve Howell there has obviously some contact with Akai
(or did have, when he wrote the Ak.Sys documentation)

Unless Akai would hand over the source and agree to the GPL,
obviously the project can't even begin.

I think it is fair that we define this:

Our first goal is to ask akai to open up the source. They would not have to depend on an open source team to mantain it. We would only have the source open so we could help fix and propose changes/updates/upgrades in an interactive way.

Akai would still be the main developer/mantainer. We would check out the code and send fixes to Akai. They would be the final editor, like in the case of the linux distro: Fedora Core

In the case that Akai doesn't want to open up the source so we can help, we would try and upload our own kernel and our own "OS".

I see, yes,
if they at least documented their source,
without releasing it under the GPL,
that would be something.

But I have already done a similar thing with the documentation -
I have been through it with a fine-toothed comb and provided them
with errata and markups for the whole lot,
this is about 2 years ago.
I never even got an acknowledgement!

feline1 wrote:I see, yes,
if they at least documented their source,
without releasing it under the GPL,
that would be something.

But I have already done a similar thing with the documentation -
I have been through it with a fine-toothed comb and provided them
with errata and markups for the whole lot,
this is about 2 years ago.
I never even got an acknowledgement!

Well you have mine! ;=)

I respect people's work. Maybe it is just a matter of making an official proposal! I really would like to start with:

1. Making a Plan (Official Document)
2. Stating what would we do and what would akai do
3. Setting up the Organization/Group/whatever and hosting a webpage.
4. Contact Akai and make the proposal.

If anyone can suggest anything, please do. I think we are totally open to changes. We need to get things right.

this is a little bit off-subject, but anyway:

ask akai to not forget the Z series users, who shares almost the same bugs than mpc4k users about the sampler engine part.

maybe we could ask for source opening about the Z series OS.
most ppl i know, who bought the Z samplers, bought it as mpc4k rack "version", if it makes sense.

my idea is that the mpc4k is still selled by akai, they havent officially abandon it. the Z series sampler is actually a legacy hardware. so open sourcing the os code wont make any economic "damage" to akai.

if the Z os became stable, and akai have the right to use it as backport into the mpc4k os, so it would help to correct somes bugs, without any cost for akai.

maybe i am just dreaming...

illiac wrote:

what are all you nerds talking about in your computer language?!

Haha, we're trying to figure out how to break your MPC Alphawolf.


-illiac

good luck with that... not more broken then it now is I hope

Is anyone of you aware of the third-party OS for the 1000 that has been around for some time? There's a 600-post thread in the 1000 forum about that. They're all over that shit

Not confirmed however how much help he actually got from Akai...if any

_Stilo_ wrote:Is anyone of you aware of the third-party OS for the 1000 that has been around for some time? There's a 600-post thread in the 1000 forum about that. They're all over that ****

Not confirmed however how much help he actually got from Akai...if any

on top of that, he keeps fixing the errors by gettin beta test results sent to him, so its on beta 16 or something by now. hes done a good job. i havent loaded it on my 1000 yet