What would you like to be able to do on an MPC4000?

Its a shame the MPC didn't change much since the 80s, and now Akai is heading backwards in their thinking - doesn't mean we have to. I am interested in what things you find you would like to do but can't (or don't think you can!). Maybe we can learn some things from it - maybe there are even already ways to do some of these things.

I have a few to kick off:

I'd like to be able to control timing shifts, swing and tempo from CCs (and therefore record the changes)

I'd like to be able to modulate sample start points and loop length from CCs... I think old EMU samplers could? or was it Ensoniq?

I'd like to be able to control note numbers from LFOs or from the Q-links and then keep them quantised into particular selected keys or scales.

I'd like a programmable polyphonic arpeggiator with random functions.

I'd like to be able to skip beats in Q link sequences so they could be odd numbered lengths and loop in a different cycle to the sequence

I'd like to be able to apply percentage liklelihoods to determine whether a programmed notes in a sequence would play or not, so repeating a sequence 4 times would not give exactly the same result each time, and each time I play a song it would be different.

I'd like to be able to modulate delay times from CCs and from sequences

I'd like to be able to modulate the loop length of sequences from CC, so individual bars and beats could be looped on the fly

I do a lot of this kind of stuff with my Sequentix P3 sequencer, DSI Evolver synth, LISA software, Ableton etc at the moment, but I tend to use those as creative sources and the 4k more as a compiler and editor...

of course I'm dreaming, Numark don't give a hoot and and I guess hiphop headz have limited interest in this kind of stuff, but I'd love to see an MPC-like machine one day with these kinds of features,

Richard

I have a long list of things of things I'd like to change, but they are solely for if the source is ever released and we can work on it ourselves. I'm not going to wish for an OS update from Akai or dream about what they could have done. However, we may find there are workarounds for things we wish it did. Many live sequencing tricks that programs like ableton do will never be possible, but there is quite a bit we can do with sound manipulation and stopped sequence editing. I thought I'd point out some possible workarounds for some of your items:

I'd like to be able to modulate sample start points and loop length from CCs... I think old EMU samplers could? or was it Ensoniq?

We CAN modulate sample start points through the mod matrix. Not loop points though. However... loop points CAN be modified through sysex. I'm playing around with this as there are some interesting possibilities there.

I'd like to be able to apply percentage liklelihoods to determine whether a programmed notes in a sequence would play or not, so repeating a sequence 4 times would not give exactly the same result each time, and each time I play a song it would be different.

You might be able to come up with a basic form of this (but not an exact percentage). Use the mod matrix with a random (NOTE)LFO source applied to lets say a zone (zones set to real time xfade). If you only have one zone sound loaded, there would be a 25% chance it plays (and so on for 50 and 75%). Playing with other destinations and the LFO parameters might give other interesting results.

I'd like to be able to modulate delay times from CCs and from sequences

If you mean the delay effect, we can assign any FX parameters to Q-link which can be assigned to a MIDI CC.

I'd like to be able to modulate the loop length of sequences from CC, so individual bars and beats could be looped on the fly

Should be so easy to implement, oh well. Only work around is having those different loops spread out over multiple sequences and using next sequence. Also individual track lengths and loop points would have been key.

great post, thank you McSmooth. This LFO controlled zone idea is cunning, the note is triggered but not necessarily heard, I hadn't thought of it that way - it could be fantastic for autechre-ish manipluations

as for sysex implementation - how in heck do you KNOW THAT? Is there a document somewhere? Not that I even have a sysex capable controller but it makes me wonder what the heck else is possible and hidden away...

Richard

Akai site has system ex info in the support files.

eknocbeats wrote:Akai site has system ex info in the support files.

its a the bottom of this page http://www.akaipro.com/archives.php#sysex

I would just like easier access to whats already there.
I am one of the few people it seems that actually thinks akai did something right with the mpc5k
If the controllers on the left truely are configured for sample editing its possible that akai might have really enhanced the U.I of the mpc.
It would be super fast to edit any pad with respect to att,dec,pitch
Thats been at the top of my list ever since I started using mpcs.

So I would like the qlinks to be quick edit sliders that work per pad i.e. hit a pad and what ever u configured the qlinks to do they do, but actually make changes in the PROGRAM!
TO me they are wasted at the moment.
the 4k has it all its just a bastard to get to.
oh yeah bring back 16levels of decay. Its bullshit that was left out on a drum machine!

g

I would like to change the pitch/tune of a selection of notes in the MIDI sequencer
I cant think of anything else at the moment!

foge1, ...... ? qlinks are wasted?
I suggest you get an all-in-one software package..... I read your posts and I wonder: why does he keep his mpc4000? You do nothing but complain.

This thread kind of is about complaining... but with the hope of alternate methods to accomplish the task. I see what foge is saying, it would make sense if the q-links would control parameters on the screen instead of needing to cursor over everything. The other side of this is that q-links are usually active and real time, so it would cut out that functionality any time you changed the screen. A menu key could probably have solved that though. Once again, the workaround to having controllable parameters is sysex. You could probably set up one of those BCR2000s to control all the common functions. Do those allow sysex programming? I really need a controller that does that. I will do a seperate sysex thread, but still have some research to do. Figure pretty much anything you can do on the screen can be done through sysex.

Decay is missing out of 16 levels. 16 Levels should be able to do everything that is in Pad Control for Q-links. On the other hand, that is the work around right there.

MPC 4 ME wrote:I would like to change the pitch/tune of a selection of notes in the MIDI sequencer
I cant think of anything else at the moment!

That is really an annoying missing feature. They left out a lot of editing features, some that were right on the XL before it (like transpose). You have to copy selected notes to another track, perform a track transpose and move back.

perform a track transpose and move back; you say?

McSmooth wrote:This thread kind of is about complaining... but with the hope of alternate methods to accomplish the task. I see what foge is saying, it would make sense if the q-links would control parameters on the screen instead of needing to cursor over everything. The other side of this is that q-links are usually active and real time, so it would cut out that functionality any time you changed the screen. A menu key could probably have solved that though. Once again, the workaround to having controllable parameters is sysex. You could probably set up one of those BCR2000s to control all the common functions. Do those allow sysex programming? I really need a controller that does that. I will do a seperate sysex thread, but still have some research to do. Figure pretty much anything you can do on the screen can be done through sysex.

Decay is missing out of 16 levels. 16 Levels should be able to do everything that is in Pad Control for Q-links. On the other hand, that is the work around right there.

MPC 4 ME wrote:I would like to change the pitch/tune of a selection of notes in the MIDI sequencer
I cant think of anything else at the moment!

That is really an annoying missing feature. They left out a lot of editing features, some that were right on the XL before it (like transpose). You have to copy selected notes to another track, perform a track transpose and move back.

Try looking up Feline1's post about the MPC4000 and sysex. Feline had all kinds of problems.

The SysEx implementation was a load of buggy crap when it came out.

Total alpha-ware. There's were huge blocks of functionality that just plain didn't work AT ALL! (e.g. the 'confirmation messages)

I can't imagine Akai ever did any proper testing on that code. It was an embarrassment, like some kid handing in their homework covered in crap and saying the dog ate it.


When the guys in Akai's UK wing finally wrested the code out of Japan, they did a lot of remedial bug fixes on the SysEx - the result was OS 1.50 - it more or less worked...

...but I still kept finding loads of irritating random bugs and bits that didn't work.
It just put me off trying to use the SysEx, cos I'd sit there for half an hour figuring out a 16 byte hexadecimal string, program it into my Kenton or Doepfer controller....
....and then about 1 time outta 10 it wouldn't WORK! And I'd never be 100% sure if it was just a bug, or had i got a byte wrong somewhere - drove me nuts.

Then you'd send a bug report to Akai, and you wouldn't even get a REPLY, never mind a fix.



ANYWAYS -
the thing I would like most now in 2008 for the MPC4000 is for Akai to release the Adobe FrameMaker files for the Reference Guide, so that I could merge in all the changes for the (14? or sthg) OS Updates and make a proper definitive reference guide that you could rely on.

McSmooth wrote: You could probably set up one of those BCR2000s to control all the common functions. Do those allow sysex programming? I really need a controller that does that. I will do a seperate sysex thread, but still have some research to do. Figure pretty much anything you can do on the screen can be done through sysex.

Best thing about the BC series is the price... I've got my BCR2000 used
for $80

The BCR series does do Sysex. The Behringer utilities that are provided DON"T allow you to program it, but they included a "Learn" button
on the BCR series and if you press the "Learn" button, it will take a quite long Sysex string, or even series of Sysex strings.

So that doesn't help you with something like the 4000, since the 4000 won't "Send" the sysex when you change the parameter on the 4000. But luckily we have a lot of smart people who have reversed engineered the firmware and have figured out what's going on and have made their own free program to allow you to program Sysex from a GUI without haveing to use the "Learn" button.

If you go to yahoogroups and join the BC2000 forum, you'll find a program called "BC Manager". It's a WIndows only program:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8N_JR65vPU ... Man100.zip

THere are also some other Mac/Windows programs that let you do the same thing, but not as nice as the BC Manager. So if you have a Mac, your not out of luck.

So yes, the BC2000 and BCF2000 both allow Sysex. I haven't spent the time with it with my 4000 like I should... so i agree a seperate thread that catagorises the EXACT Systex to use for certain items would be great. I would love to strart adding to it...


Cheers,
Dave

What are you talking about, Feline1? Last summer Akai sent me a hard drive from Seagate because mine was questionable. My MPC is more than 5 years old, so I have no warranty. I have like a correspondation of over 20 mails with Akaipro. I think this is great service!

"the thing I would like most now in 2008 for the MPC4000 is for Akai to release the Adobe FrameMaker files for the Reference Guide, so that I could merge in all the changes for the (14? or sthg) OS Updates and make a proper definitive reference guide that you could rely on."

this is pretty shocking, can't we at least try and do something about this? write some polite emails? Its really pathetic there isn't even a proper manual for such a complex beastie - nthey shoulda t least support you to do their work for them

but knowing your record of diplomacy, I have to ask, you didn't upset them by calling them a bunch of fukking twat-arsed cokk sucking wankers did you Feline? javascript:emoticon(':lol:')

O