produce or engineer

b.read wrote:

The Machinist wrote:------------------------ here's a scenario.
Artist says to producer: Somethings not right about my guitar. It sounds ugly.
Producer says to engineer: Can you brighten up the Les Paul? The artist and I think it's a bit muddy and lacks presence, a little nasal even.
Engineer says to producer: A little bit of the 1176 at 4:1 to firm it up maybe? Aaannd....how about a 3dB or so cut at 270 cycles with a high Q and just a little bit out at 8k? Maybe even a slight shelf up from 12k, slightly reasonant?
Producer says to engineer: Yeah. That should do it and it should make it seem more upfront in the mix.
Producer says to artist: Sounding more musical?
Artist says to producer: Wow....that sounds like a record!

***Artist says to engineer: Oh yeah! Can I get some more ME in the phones? Thanks dawg!***

Now it's REALLY like a studio conversation

Did Lee Perry say things like I man gonna cut this at 270 cycles?
Or did he use his ears and turn knobs till he got the sound he liked
which revolutionized dub music and beyond and did things that can not be discovered in the yamaha sound handbook
nor Modern Recording Techniques

Is he a lesser engineer producer for doing things as such?

I know where you are coming from machinist but
I do not think that everything has to be that pure science
and I do not think that all good engineers think and hear in the terms you described
its like saying that only musicians who sight read music perfectly and
can explain in perfect musical theory to you what they just played
are good musicians
And we all know that is not the case

The thing I love about recording music is that there are no rules
There are things that people have done that work
and frame work to go by
but there is no law that says this is the only way to get good recordings

Ofcourse not! I think you are reading too much into it...I read machinist's post as a way to loosely "categorize" what each person's role was just for this thread. By no means was he saying that all engineers are geeks who only speak tech-babble, you know? Although I'm sure he'd agree that alot are

You responded to the same post twice. AND months later.

Don't blame me! Blame dp.movement for bumping this one! I'm bored on the night shift and will post on just about anything right now...

Doglamp wrote::lol: You responded to the same post twice. AND months later.

If you are referring to me making my same point and yet again
It is true
And Machinist is mad cool and does understand my point
I just felt the need to make the point again
Because as an engineer and musician
I hear people say things about music like they are Laws that we must abide by
and this to me is missing the point completely and without fail there
will be someone quick to say well you have to know the rules before you make them
kinda true but 9 outta ten times the people who say that spend there entire life
trying to learn rules and break none

Life is short
Break Lawz
Learn some rules
Break Forms and Formulas
and most of all make music your way
Engineer your way
what ever sounds good right...........
that is highly subjective and changes from day to day
what is "good" that is
Just make it
and think about it later

Learn from everyone especially engineers who are not so full of theory that they can't show you
and explain to you what they are doing in technical terms and non technical terms
but do not become someone else
Learn from others but be sure to put your spin on things
That is my only point

empeecee.P wrote:Did Lee Perry say things like I man gonna cut this at 270 cycles?
Or did he use his ears and turn knobs till he got the sound he liked
which revolutionized dub music and beyond and did things that can not be discovered in the yamaha sound handbook
nor Modern Recording Techniques

Is he a lesser engineer producer for doing things as such?

I know where you are coming from machinist but
I do not think that everything has to be that pure science
and I do not think that all good engineers think and hear in the terms you described
its like saying that only musicians who sight read music perfectly and
can explain in perfect musical theory to you what they just played
are good musicians
And we all know that is not the case

The thing I love about recording music is that there are no rules
There are things that people have done that work
and frame work to go by
but there is no law that says this is the only way to get good recordings

The Machinist wrote:I've definitely come across people who will even call something a "thingie"....yet when they move it, magic comes out. These people just instinctively know what will sound good, but don't even get into the tech limbo. Some people do hear things as an approximate of frequency or distortion, others simply hear it by lo-mids, mids, hi-mid, etc, others just dial it in until it sound "right". I don't think any of these people are superior or inferior to each other, the end result is really what matters. And I've seen all kinds.

Also, see rickrock305's posts. A lot of text was posted in my posts, and it's very easy to misinterpret what I've said, but if you look again you'll often find that I'm using blunt and gross generalizations for illustration purposes mostly, not attempting to provide all instances of ideal nor real world situations -- I think that's pretty impossible. It's very hard to cover all basis when discussing career positions that are often abstract, subjective, and malleable by their very nature. What I've done here is try to provide overviews in a most academic manner, so as to not confuse things with all possible variables and scenarios.

Essentially, B.Read said it best...

b.read wrote:Ofcourse not! I think you are reading too much into it...I read machinist's post as a way to loosely "categorize" what each person's role was just for this thread. By no means was he saying that all engineers are geeks who only speak tech-babble, you know? Although I'm sure he'd agree that alot are

b.read wrote:

The Machinist wrote:Artist says to engineer: Oh yeah! Can I get some more ME in the phones? Thanks dawg!***

Now it's REALLY like a studio conversation

rickrock305 wrote:i responded before i read this post. this was what i was trying to get across. its much more than simply making stuff sound good or running pro tools. most people think thats all it takes, and thats why there are so many sh*tty sounding records out these days.

Thanks for the added perspective man. We agree.

empeecee.P wrote:And Machinist is mad cool and does understand my point

I understand.

The Machinist wrote:

b.read wrote:

The Machinist wrote:Artist says to engineer: Oh yeah! Can I get some more ME in the phones? Thanks dawg!***

Now it's REALLY like a studio conversation

rickrock305 wrote:i responded before i read this post. this was what i was trying to get across. its much more than simply making stuff sound good or running pro tools. most people think thats all it takes, and thats why there are so many sh*tty sounding records out these days.

Thanks for the added perspective man. We agree.

empeecee.P wrote:And Machinist is mad cool and does understand my point

I understand.

And we all come to the conclusion that it takes many perspectives
Which is one of the great things about music
Plus I think we all learned something from this exchange
So thanks

The Machinist wrote:Essentially, B.Read said it best...

Thank you kind sir!
I tippa my hat offa to ya!