Talk about the music biz - marketing, promotions, contract law, copyright etc...
By MajorNoob Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:04 am
Yoo wassup guys, it's been a while i was listening to some nice boombaps and it reminded me of me pushin on those mpc buttons and that took me back to this forum. :smoker: :worthy:

But I have a question, recently i downloaded lots of drum samples and used it for some tracks, but now my question is, have someone ever been sued for using drum samples in a track which are not his. I know you can layer and adjust your samples so much that no one will recognize it, but if you keep it the original way is it possible to get sued for using downloaded drum samples?

Thank you in advance,

Peace!
By dcook79 Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:46 am
Can a "sound" be copy written...? Melodies,chord progression, sure. But a "sound" I personally don't think so...

Now if your drum "samples" are lifted from a recording of a musical performance ( I.e James Brown "funky drummer")...then yeah I think you would have to get clearance.
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By Shostakovich Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:54 pm
MajorNoob wrote:Yoo wassup guys, it's been a while i was listening to some nice boombaps and it reminded me of me pushin on those mpc buttons and that took me back to this forum. :smoker: :worthy:

But I have a question, recently i downloaded lots of drum samples and used it for some tracks, but now my question is, have someone ever been sued for using drum samples in a track which are not his. I know you can layer and adjust your samples so much that no one will recognize it, but if you keep it the original way is it possible to get sued for using downloaded drum samples?

Thank you in advance,

Peace!


You won't get sued. It doesn't work like that.

In reality, unless you start selling a high number of downloads or shift enough vinyl or CDs, they may decide to recover their losses by having you register your track with your country's collection society after which a certain cut of any sales will go to the owner of the recording (we can't really talk about publishing on a drum pattern).

Ask the question again when you start selling more than 1000 downloads a month.
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By MPC-Tutor Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:48 pm
dcook79 wrote:Can a "sound" be copy written...? Melodies,chord progression, sure. But a "sound" I personally don't think so...


Of course a 'sound' can be copyrighted. Any sound is creative expression, often by more than one person - the way it was played, the way it was recorded, processed, edited, layered etc. Copyright gives artists rights to a monopoly of their artist expression. You cannot copyright an idea, but you can copyright any form of expression of that idea.

Don't believe the old wives tales created and repeated by people on online forums, the duration of a recording has no bearing - 1 second, 10 second, 1000000 seconds, it doesn't matter.

Anyway, in these cases there are three issues to consider;

1) Is it copyright infringement?
2) If so, will the copyright holder find out?
3) If so, what will they decide to do?

For (1), generally speaking unless a recording is in the public domain, then that recording will be copyrighted. It could be from a record, or a samplepack, or just downloaded from a musicians' web site, it doesn't matter.

The next question to answer is whether your use of the sample is allowed by the copyright holder. Unless they state to the contrary, you should assume that it ISN'T allowed. However that doesn't mean that you cant use the sound. In the US for example, there is the concept of 'fair use', which does allow people to use copyrighted works under certain circumstances, for example critique, reviews, parody etc. But this is not a 'right', it's a defence and you would first need to go to court to argue it = $$$$.

So you should probably assume in most cases that you are most likely committing copyright infringement.

Number (2) is the typical argument you'll see on forums, which is of course an entirely different matter to the legality issue. Assuming you actually publish the music, are you going to get caught using that sound? In most cases unless you've taken a complete passage of music, no one is going to notice a single snare, even of you don't layer it. But of course, many drum sounds are very unique. If it's suitably unique then it is possible that someone will recognise it.

So number (3), what happens if they do recognise it? Well, they might not be bothered, especially if you are a 'nobody'. They might demand that you cease and desist your usage immediately. They might demand that you pay them for the usage - which may be a lump sum and/or % royalties on all sales. They might expect you to pay their costs in dealing with you.

However copyright law in most countries may also allow them to pursue you in court for damages (I believe in the US it's $150,000 per instance of infringement).

I think number 2 is probably where most of these things stop. But it's good to just be aware of the actual issues involved :)
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By Coz Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:56 pm
It's either an urban myth or a classic case that involved Fatboy Slim getting sued for using little more than a hi hat sample without permission.

I seem to recall it costing the label 200K. If anyone can dig up the info post it here. I probably read it in a Future Music interview from the late 90s.
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By SimonInAustralia Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:04 pm
Read an interview with DJ Shadow in which he said something about only listing one sample per track on Entroducing because he couldn't be bothered getting them all cleared.
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By Metatron72 Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:08 pm
The laws in most every country have a line drawn with single hits, sounds under 1.5 seconds. No one has ever been sued for single drum hits, or even one shots. ESPN and sports networks in the chessey tunes that back the highlights often have stuff like the JB horn hit from BDP South Bronx.

Lawsuits are generally when people take entire 1-16 bar chunks and don't ask for clearance, and it's usually more melodic samples or the whole record getting used.

On that note god bless the Winston Brothers for never suing the 10,000 people who used the Amen break. :mrgreen:
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By MPC-Tutor Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:08 am
Metatron72 wrote:The laws in most every country have a line drawn with single hits, sounds under 1.5 seconds.


Do you have a link to back that statement up? Not a link to a forum post, but a link to case law where this was successfully argued? We're getting back to old wives tales again.... :popcorn:

So if someone uses an open hat from one of my packs without paying for a license, it's copyright infringement, but if they use a closed hat it isn't? I don't think so. :smoker:
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By SimonInAustralia Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:11 am
I don't think there is any length of sample rule in most copyright laws, they base it on whether a 'substantial part' of the work was copied.

What is a 'substantial part' of a work is decided by the courts in each separate case.

If it can be recognised as being a copy of a copyrighted work, or part of it, it can probably be argued that it is a 'substantial part' of that work.
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By Ill-Green Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:56 am
MPC-Tutor wrote:
Metatron72 wrote:The laws in most every country have a line drawn with single hits, sounds under 1.5 seconds.


Do you have a link to back that statement up? Not a link to a forum post, but a link to case law where this was successfully argued? We're getting back to old wives tales again.... :popcorn:

So if someone uses an open hat from one of my packs without paying for a license, it's copyright infringement, but if they use a closed hat it isn't? I don't think so. :smoker:

That was the case when sampling started to get hit with lawsuits. One note sampled was considered fair use but by the late '90s they said hell with it and all sounds had to be cleared. I don't think its allowed anymore.

Good news is that sampling has just been considered an artform of music at the last Grammy, so things might be looking bright soon.