work for hire situation

ok heres another situation, what happens if your working with some one on a work for hire basis..Paying them to sing lyrics you wrote..Now eventually if its a good song it will stick in this person head.What can you do to protect your music, do u have to copywrite before you even deal with this person..Alot of this just seems to hold up the creative process, especially if you have to do this everytime you create..I wanna send all completed work all at once but working under those conditions wont allow that.

the way u are talking, and if u think its that tight... get a entertainment lawyer, someone who knows and understand the law as for how to protect your art....

talk to them about how u should go about copyrighting that, u can go around asking peeps all day, but u can always have a free counseltation with a lawyer about how to go about doing that. If they go in and do the work for you, then they will start telling their fees about them going and have to copyright for you

Makes sense, thanks

OK...here goes...You can flame me on this if you like but it's true....Don't worry so much about someone stealing your S#*t. Odds are on they are no more better connected than you. I work in collaboration with other musicians all the time and only copyright completed collections (CD projects) and once a year I'll put all the bits and pieces into a collection and copyright it if I remember. Your tune, as good as it might be is only 1 song. Most folks who recognize your talent would rather develop a relationship with you if your'e good than steal a single beat. While I do mostly Jazz a number of HIp Hop and Rap artists have asked permission to sample my stuff. I give it freely with the condition that they give me credit on thier disk - and if they hit, they'll use me again. I've only been ripped off once and the artist did such a good job of changing my stuff that I'd have lost the copyright battle in court anyway. Most pro labels would rather have a good songwriter than one song. Stealing your stuff is like cutting the goose open looking for golden eggs - stupid. Not saying it will never happen, it's just not likely. Being so free with my stuff has helped me build some good industry relationships too...One's that now pay.

Now that makes alot of sense as well, but it only takes that one idea/track to get stolen and that may have been your meal ticket.. I feel as if my unwillingness to part with my music how ever has kept me on the outside of the door.. I just recently felt comfortable giving tracks out for people to hear, cause i feel time is running out and i can always make more hotshit. Some cats bust out 8-15 tracks a day, me i say one , but that one is THE ONE in my head.. So yeah im always skeptic and cautious but i understand.

dont know about that one.... i feel ya on the idea... but, i have seen peeps step on other peeps toes all day long to make that one dollar to worry about building a relationship, especially wit the economy, which also effects the entertainment industry.... so i mean, it makes sense what ya saying, but also sets u up for not being smart on your behalf, i mean, him copyrighting doesnt stop the artist from asking to use or borrow it, if they really want it, they ask you, so why they cant ask him just cause his name on it wont slow them down....

Here's a good book that deals with everything about copyrights and it is really concise and helpfull.

Title: The Copyright Guide: A Friendly Guide to Protecting and Profiting from Copyrights

Author: Lee Wilson

Published by Allworth Press

Anyway it's a great book.

P.S.
In response to a few comments above me, if someone can take your idea and sell it they will. Not many people are into harvesting an abundance of material, in my experience they want to make a quick buck, that's it that's all.

4dahaterz wrote:dont know about that one.... i feel ya on the idea... but, i have seen peeps step on other peeps toes all day long to make that one dollar to worry about building a relationship, especially wit the economy, which also effects the entertainment industry.... so i mean, it makes sense what ya saying, but also sets u up for not being smart on your behalf, i mean, him copyrighting doesnt stop the artist from asking to use or borrow it, if they really want it, they ask you, so why they cant ask him just cause his name on it wont slow them down....

The unfortunate reality about copyright law is that you have to show reasonable proof that the other party had access to the music you claim was stolen. This is oftentimes hard if not impossible. It's already been decided that you cant copyright a chord progression which leaves alot of songs wide open for being ripped off. Also considering that creating a similar song if perfectly legal, it's very hard to make a copyright case that you can win. That's why you read about so few copyright cases even though the medium (music) is so limited. With only 12 notes to choose from and hundreds of thousands of songs being written weekly, everything we can do has been done in some way already....I'm not in any way saying you shouldn't copyright your stuff because you should, but there is no need to be paranoid about it cause if someone want's to copy your tune they're gonna do it anyway. It's better, in my opinion, to use those tunes as networking tools than to keep 'em locked up until you copyright. We put out over 50 pieces of original music a year, mostly for broadcast but I work with "artists" as well and I only compile a disk for copyrights about 1 or 2 times a year. And while people will sometimes try to rip you off, it's not likely if they respect what you do, enjoy working with you and think that the relationship could be worth more to thier future than stealing a tune. On the flip side, if you're working with "artists" - collect ALL the money before giving them a disk. I've been ripped off for recording time more than once....

fader-pro wrote:

4dahaterz wrote:dont know about that one.... i feel ya on the idea... but, i have seen peeps step on other peeps toes all day long to make that one dollar to worry about building a relationship, especially wit the economy, which also effects the entertainment industry.... so i mean, it makes sense what ya saying, but also sets u up for not being smart on your behalf, i mean, him copyrighting doesnt stop the artist from asking to use or borrow it, if they really want it, they ask you, so why they cant ask him just cause his name on it wont slow them down....

The unfortunate reality about copyright law is that you have to show reasonable proof that the other party had access to the music you claim was stolen. This is oftentimes hard if not impossible. It's already been decided that you cant copyright a chord progression which leaves alot of songs wide open for being ripped off. Also considering that creating a similar song if perfectly legal, it's very hard to make a copyright case that you can win. That's why you read about so few copyright cases even though the medium (music) is so limited. With only 12 notes to choose from and hundreds of thousands of songs being written weekly, everything we can do has been done in some way already....I'm not in any way saying you shouldn't copyright your stuff because you should, but there is no need to be paranoid about it cause if someone want's to copy your tune they're gonna do it anyway. It's better, in my opinion, to use those tunes as networking tools than to keep 'em locked up until you copyright. We put out over 50 pieces of original music a year, mostly for broadcast but I work with "artists" as well and I only compile a disk for copyrights about 1 or 2 times a year. And while people will sometimes try to rip you off, it's not likely if they respect what you do, enjoy working with you and think that the relationship could be worth more to thier future than stealing a tune. On the flip side, if you're working with "artists" - collect ALL the money before giving them a disk. I've been ripped off for recording time more than once....

thanks for info fader-pro, very helpful to know...

fader-pro wrote:

4dahaterz wrote:dont know about that one.... i feel ya on the idea... but, i have seen peeps step on other peeps toes all day long to make that one dollar to worry about building a relationship, especially wit the economy, which also effects the entertainment industry.... so i mean, it makes sense what ya saying, but also sets u up for not being smart on your behalf, i mean, him copyrighting doesnt stop the artist from asking to use or borrow it, if they really want it, they ask you, so why they cant ask him just cause his name on it wont slow them down....

The unfortunate reality about copyright law is that you have to show reasonable proof that the other party had access to the music you claim was stolen. This is oftentimes hard if not impossible. It's already been decided that you cant copyright a chord progression which leaves alot of songs wide open for being ripped off. Also considering that creating a similar song if perfectly legal, it's very hard to make a copyright case that you can win. That's why you read about so few copyright cases even though the medium (music) is so limited. With only 12 notes to choose from and hundreds of thousands of songs being written weekly, everything we can do has been done in some way already....I'm not in any way saying you shouldn't copyright your stuff because you should, but there is no need to be paranoid about it cause if someone want's to copy your tune they're gonna do it anyway. It's better, in my opinion, to use those tunes as networking tools than to keep 'em locked up until you copyright. We put out over 50 pieces of original music a year, mostly for broadcast but I work with "artists" as well and I only compile a disk for copyrights about 1 or 2 times a year. And while people will sometimes try to rip you off, it's not likely if they respect what you do, enjoy working with you and think that the relationship could be worth more to thier future than stealing a tune. On the flip side, if you're working with "artists" - collect ALL the money before giving them a disk. I've been ripped off for recording time more than once....

yeah, im definitely wit u on da networking over a dollar part.... which is always best....preferably u always wanna try to work wit someone wit a good business and trust ethic....esepecially in situations like that