Levels when tracking out

Hi all,

I usually record and mix a beat in the MPC and adjust the levels of each track from the mixer within the MPC.

Then I record each track one by one into my DAW.

My question is this - as the MPC is 16 bit, I feel it is best to record each track into the computer at max volume. However, I have already set the levels in the MPC and don't want to mess with that (a sort of basic mix before mixing on the computer).

What's the best/most common way to do this? Is it a good idea to set every track to 100% volume when tracking out, and then set it back to its mix volume? That seems long!

Hope this makes sense. Thnx

E

Dreadful wrote:My question is this - as the MPC is 16 bit, I feel it is best to record each track into the computer at max volume. However, I have already set the levels in the MPC and don't want to mess with that (a sort of basic mix before mixing on the computer).

What's the best/most common way to do this? Is it a good idea to set every track to 100% volume when tracking out, and then set it back to its mix volume? That seems long!

It is probably 'best' to set the MPC mixer output to full level when tracking into a computer, but in reality you will probably not hear much difference in the final recording.

Try both ways and go with what you think sounds best.

Be aware that direct comparisons between the same MPC sequence tracked both ways will not be very meaningful, as the individual track levels between both methods when played back from the computer will be different to each other, unless you do some very detailed level matching between the same tracks in the recordings created using each method, inside the computer.

Like others have said, if your question surrounds whether to mix primarily on the front end, or within the DAW, then that is totally dependant on your creative instinct, practical workflow...

I would just say or remind you to make sure your digital recordings (each track as you've said) are peaking around -12 or -10 db at the most, regardless of how high the MPC's volume is or the levels you've set within.

The MPC is my drummer and sometimes my MIDI sequencer if I'm triggering other hardware synths. My chords, leads, basslines start as MIDI in the DAW and eventually get mixed through analog circuitry and back in, but the audio never passes through the MPC. I get better sonic results keeping bass, horns, and keys, etc. at 24bit, 48khz+...

As far levels go, the reason I love and will always use hardware MPCs are the velocity sensitive pads and ability to multi-track. I find that the precision of the pads does the initial mixing of levels for me... from there it's minor tweaks up or down as other elements are added.

I multi-track drum sounds and percussion using a couple of 10-channel snakes, a mixer, effects unit, and my interface, so I can later submix in the DAW. The mixer gives me an analog stage for warmth and presence, and allows me to use real faders and knobs for dynamic "dubbing" as opposed to cranking the jog wheel or messing with the mouse to automate drums...

benKingsley wrote:I would just say or remind you to make sure your digital recordings (each track as you've said) are peaking around -12 or -10 db at the most, regardless of how high the MPC's volume is or the levels you've set within.

What is the reasoning behind that recommendation?

SimonInAustralia wrote:

benKingsley wrote:I would just say or remind you to make sure your digital recordings (each track as you've said) are peaking around -12 or -10 db at the most, regardless of how high the MPC's volume is or the levels you've set within.

What is the reasoning behind that recommendation?

To allow headroom in your mixes, giving you the ability to add more tracks, process those tracks, etc., without digital clipping. If the volume is too low, that is what your amp/speakers are for. You have to remember that most professional studios don't have the tools or equipment to Master their recordings (wikipedia Mastering to learn what that is if you don't). When stems are sent to mastering houses, they expect the mix to have AT LEAST 6 db of headroom to allow them to polish and finish your song. Multi-band compression, EQ, reverb, and exciters/maximizers are common tools for the mastering engineer-- all of these things raise the level and apparent loudness of the audio... headroom is needed to avoid digital clipping. Digital clipping is one of only a few disadvantages of digital audio (versus tape) since it sounds like DEATH as opposed to nice harmonic distortion...

Imagine I've already sequenced and recorded 16 tracks into my DAW of choice: 8 tracks for drums and 8 tracks for vox, bass, guitar, keys, whatever. If all of those individual tracks are peaking towards the red (0 dbm), I am now unable to apply certain plugins to those tracks without that nasty digital clipping or (and more commonly in today's world) overuse of limiters which can create artifacts (unnatural sounding compression that changes the way your entire mix sounds).

examples:

1) Say my sample was recorded at a high level into my DAW (with peaks up around 0dbs). I feel as though the sample itself sounds dull/lifeless and I want it crisp and cutting through the mix. I might apply a "maximizer" type plugin to accentuate the sample; doing this will raise the signal level (and apparent loudness) of the sample, but oh shite, there is no room for this extra volume since you failed to record with any headroom whatsoever. Maybe you add a brickwall limiter to prevent clipping but oh shite, now your sample has that "pumping" digital sound to it and is nothing like what you intended it to sound like.

2) I am crafting a hip-hop beat on my MPC and i'm preparing to record it into my daw as several different tracks (kick on 1, snare on 2, hats on 3, etc, etc.). I hear a great mix coming through my speakers after setting the levels of each track in the MPC.

------->If I record my beat into the DAW at proper levels (under -10 db), I now have the headroom NEEDED to have an MC/singer, whatever, come in and voice the beat, and then mix the vocal in with the rest of the song. After I've done that, I find that the vocalist's voice really covers up the sound of my snare or toms. No problem! I have the headroom needed to thicken up the sound of the snare using some compression, EQ, whatever else... (which raises its volume).

------->If I had recorded my tracks to where the levels were peaking, not only would I be unable to apply certain plugins to my tracks (compression and make-up gain, effects, whatever), I will be unable to fit the vocal into the mix without totally re-working it and likely changing the character of the music in the process.

Lots of bedroom producers (especially in this new EDM thing) will just throw brick-wall limiters on each track... that's fine if you don't want your music to have any dynamic range (and if you enjoy headaches within minutes of listening on closed back headphones).

Engineers give the musician/producer as many options as possible when recording--- knowing they will want to add remove, adjust certain things later, or totally remix the song!

I would wiki/google/forums and read-up on compression, compression vs. limiting, post-processing/mastering, and especially dynamic range.

I saved this to my bookmarks years ago... it's a nice article about loudness, dynamic range, and how these things have changed as technology evolved from tape to CD: http://www.chicagomasteringservice.com/loudness.html


Hope this helps.

^ Im not posting this bcuz I want to start an argument and if this works for u then cool. However I feel that u r confusing some things. If u r talking about exporting tracks within a high bit rate digital domain and staying in said domain then yah no problem. If one is talking about tracking from an analog output from a 16 bit 44.1hz domain then my knowledge is yes get it as loud as possible. U want to do processing , no problem lower the volume of the track in ure mix. If u track a 16 bit with that much headroom u will encounter noise problems if u want to bring the volume of the track up in the mix. U can create ure own headroom in the mix with optimal sound quality. I could be wrong and once again don't wanna argue just to give what i think is the proper info, ultimately its up to the op to cross reference and find out the right info.

dr4track wrote:^ Im not posting this bcuz I want to start an argument and if this works for u then cool. However I feel that u r confusing some things.

Lots of things.

To the op, what u r talking about is one of the reasons I only do minimal mixing at the composition stage and only to get ideas for afterwards. But first couple times may b long, aft u get the hang of it it shouldn't b, u can always write out ure mix on a piece of paper and u should b able to recreate the mixfairly easily. having ure mix on a daw has advantages ex u sell beats to people that want the full session. Cpu daws have more options for mixing and ull prob b able to acheive a better sound in the long run. But ultimately its up to u, I like mixing with something that is designed to mix with mostly be cuz my gear is limited in that department.