MPC 2500 unstable timing

Hi there,
I just received my mpc 2500 last week and am in the process of getting to know it.
So far it's been a great machine, but I've got one problem bugging me seriously:
There seems to be a timing problem when sequencing multiple tracks in a sequence.
I just tried again to set up a sequence with about 6 or 7 tracks filled with some drum and melodic events. Setting up goes alright until a certain point where the timing in the playback of the sequence (jus a 2 bar sequence) starts to drift seriously. The sequence is drifting between 125 bpm (the tempo at which I recorded everything) and something like 110 bpm. It's really not tight anymore at all.
The 7 tracks are filled with events on around 10 pads everytrack, so in total there are 70 pads playing. Thought that shoudn't be a problem, since there are 64 tracks * 16 pads * 4 banks available !

This all is Not very nice. (
What could be the problem ?
Faulty OS or something ?

Thanks for helping me out.

SLVR

slvr wrote:Hi there,
I just received my mpc 2500 last week and am in the process of getting to know it.
So far it's been a great machine, but I've got one problem bugging me seriously:
There seems to be a timing problem when sequencing multiple tracks in a sequence.
I just tried again to set up a sequence with about 6 or 7 tracks filled with some drum and melodic events. Setting up goes alright until a certain point where the timing in the playback of the sequence (jus a 2 bar sequence) starts to drift seriously. The sequence is drifting between 125 bpm (the tempo at which I recorded everything) and something like 110 bpm. It's really not tight anymore at all.
The 7 tracks are filled with events on around 10 pads everytrack, so in total there are 70 pads playing. Thought that shoudn't be a problem, since there are 64 tracks * 16 pads * 4 banks available !

This all is Not very nice. (
What could be the problem ?
Faulty OS or something ?

Thanks for helping me out.

SLVR

That's serious. I havnt witnessed that one. Has this happened to anyone else? It must be in your settings dude. I wish I had the answer to this one. That's some mad programming there.

If I only knew in which setting it must be....
I didn't change any settings actually (as far as I'm aware of)
I did add 128 mb internal memory from Kingston. That works allright.

The timing issue is just really weird. It's almost as if the machine can't handle all the midi data on the 7 tracks. That shouldn't be a problem at all, right ?!

I'm kind of desperate, because I really don't want to send it back to where I got it from (UK. I'm in the Netherlands). Will taken weeks or months, I'm afraid so.

Maybe installing the OS again and removing the 128 mb, just to see if it helps to solve the problem? Will try that tonight. But is anybody has a clue what the reason for the timing issue could be: please let me know !!!

Thanks,

SLVR

Wow, thats harsh. the only thing i can say is mess with the note repeat option while in grid edit mode...then hit play(while still in grid edit mode) this may give it a little leway to process the song. keep note to the to the moving cursor. it shouldnt be slowing down at all while playing.
im not sure that will help, but i hope it does

g'dluck man...

i just remembered one more thing dude, theres a factory reset on this machine, if the grid edit thing doesnt work do the factory reset. i done it once, i think what you do is you turn the mpc off, then when turning the mpc back on, press and hold the note delete button until you see the main screen again. that should so the trick. You can also go into the manual, it will be in there for sure also.
good luck!

Hi,
I did the factory reset yesterday night. Didn't help.
I did install the OS (b) again. Didn't help.
I took out the 128 mb memory. Didn't help.

I programmed a sequence where I hit every pad on every beat. Depending on the samples that I used, the MPC started to slow down after 19 to 30 pads used. I seems to slow down sooner (with lesser pads used) when I use just one track instead of more tracks.

I don't know the architecture of the machine, but I've been thinking about it and it doesn't seem to have to do with the sample engine. That sounds allright. It must be in the module that should be just before it, namely the midi sequencer. It seems to me that the midi sequencer or the engine that processes the midi data isn't capable of dealing with many midi events at the same time. When the sequence gets busy it seems that it is just not able to process the midi data timely, resulting in a slowing down overall tempo (actually, it's even worse: the tempo fluctuates constantly, but it slows down at exactly the same location in the sequence, which is usually only two bars, because that's how I work: loop-based) . It slows down exactly where the seqence is the busiest.

Well, I'm not giving up. I suppose AKAI has to help me out. It's a typical warranty case. They better get me a new 2500.

Jord / SLVR

slvr wrote:Hi,
I did the factory reset yesterday night. Didn't help.
I did install the OS (b) again. Didn't help.
I took out the 128 mb memory. Didn't help.

I programmed a sequence where I hit every pad on every beat. Depending on the samples that I used, the MPC started to slow down after 19 to 30 pads used. I seems to slow down sooner (with lesser pads used) when I use just one track instead of more tracks.

I don't know the architecture of the machine, but I've been thinking about it and it doesn't seem to have to do with the sample engine. That sounds allright. It must be in the module that should be just before it, namely the midi sequencer. It seems to me that the midi sequencer or the engine that processes the midi data isn't capable of dealing with many midi events at the same time. When the sequence gets busy it seems that it is just not able to process the midi data timely, resulting in a slowing down overall tempo (actually, it's even worse: the tempo fluctuates constantly, but it slows down at exactly the same location in the sequence, which is usually only two bars, because that's how I work: loop-based) . It slows down exactly where the seqence is the busiest.

Well, I'm not giving up. I suppose AKAI has to help me out. It's a typical warranty case. They better get me a new 2500.

Jord / SLVR

That sounds very logical but shouldnt that be listed in the manual on how many midi events the machine can handle? Plus if that is the reason, that svcks! Honestly I cant call it. I would call Akai on that one.

Yeah, you're completely right. It SHOULD be in the manual. But it isn't
At least I can't find it in the specifications list.

BUT: I found the way to check if I'm the only one encountering this problem, or that maybe I'm just too demanding and asking the impossible from the 2500.

Can anybody please help me by emailing me at [email protected] ; then I will send you two of my own sequence files that really don't sound good on my machine. You can then load the sequence files in your mPC2500 and test how it sounds on yours.

Just make sure you use the factory soundsets (the one that's being pre-loaded when turning on the MPC), then play one of both files and check if the tempo is constant or drifting/variating. You should be able to hear the beat getting tighter and faster when you mute most track except tracks 1 and 2 or so. If you don't hear a difference, my machine definately is faulty.

Who want to help me please ?

Jord

Don't have a 2500 myself but i can tell you the 1000 (who has a similar OS) had the same problems on the early OS's.
Timing wasn't tight, especially when many sounds were triggered at once. They solved it with later updates.

slvr wrote:Just make sure you use the factory soundsets (the one that's being pre-loaded when turning on the MPC), then play one of both files and check if the tempo is constant or drifting/variating. You should be able to hear the beat getting tighter and faster when you mute most track except tracks 1 and 2 or so. If you don't hear a difference, my machine definately is faulty.

Okay, i just tried playing your sequences and i can reproduce it. The sequence keeps slowing down and coming back up, until i mute a few tracks. Seems to be more severe with a higher Tempo setting than with a lower one.

But if that happened on the 1000 as well already, there's hope they can fix it in a future OS.


Stilo.

_Stilo_ wrote:But if that happened on the 1000 as well already, there's hope they can fix it in a future OS.

Yeah, but do inform Akai about it.
The more they know about it the faster the can solve it with a new OS

Does the tempo field show this change?

If not try using a midi program/filter to measure this on your computer. I know midi ox works for pc. There are a few for Mac as well. You could also try sync with another module.

Other than that I donno. I've never heard of such a thing, unless. Unless it is swing. Or the only other time I've seen the tempo vary is when it's slaved to another sequencer.

udenjoe wrote:Does the tempo field show this change?

No, it doesn't.

Other than that I donno. I've never heard of such a thing, unless. Unless it is swing. Or the only other time I've seen the tempo vary is when it's slaved to another sequencer.

My MPC was stand-alone when i tried it. Maybe I'll try measuring the MIDI data from the outs, thanks for the tip.

And yes, we probably should tell Akai about this.



Stilo

The problem on the 1k was caused by the sequencer handling the midi data.
On OS 1.0.4 (summer 2004) i had the same problem as described here, so i did a test by triggering the MPC's internal samples from a Korg Electribe - everything was tight.
On OS 1.0.5 it was still the same (i believe the issue wasn't mentioned in the OS release notes). Later in 2004 1.0.6 was released and the timing was better but still not 100% tight.
It wasn't before 1.0.7 (Jan 2005) when timing was finally tight.
I hope they'll fix this faster, there's a good chance cause the 2500 OS is based on the same software as the 1K's.
Like i said, email Akai with a clear detailed description of what occurs. Perhaps even include that SEQ file.

Hi there, here's the guy who started the thread.

Yesterday two of you forum members tried my sequences. They both encountered the same problem.
I also took my sequences to a local music store and loaded them into another mpc 2500 --> same problem.
Conclusion: this problem will occur on any MPC 2500.
It definately has to be an OS problem, since the mpc 1000 had the same problem when it was released and they fixed it with an OS update.

Regarding emailing AKAI about this: I've already done this.
I emailed a detailed description + the seq. files to AKAI in the USA. I also had contact with a beta tester from AKAI. He was very interested in the problem, has reproduced it and will tell akai about it. Let's hope AKAI will solve the problem ASAP with an OS update. They should, because for me the MPC 2500 this way is not yet what i expected from THE mpc.
Anyway: AKAI knows about the issue now , their beta tester knows about it, and also the shop where I bought it (very good shop actually: Digital Village in Birmingham; very cheap also !) sent the issue + seq. files to the UK AKAI representative. So I guess AKAI knows about the issue now

I think we can close this thread now, isn't it ?

Cheers,

SLVR / Jord