Influence on the sequencer

Hi

I am slaving the MPC2500 to Logic.

Beats are created on the MPC with its internal sequencer.

Logic outputs MMC and MTC, and the MPC Sync in settings are: OFF, MMC Receive is ON.

So in this setup, is the timing of the MPC's internal sequencer influenced by Logic?

I bought the MPC because the beats created on it had a better groove (i felt), so i want to make sure the sequencer inside the MPC is performing at its best.

tx,

i am gonna answer myself


i just did many tests with both logic and live. the timing of the mpc, the very "swing" of the unit, is VERY influenced when it is slaved to a DAW.

hm that is bad news - as i was planing to do this in the future...

the timing of the mpc, the very "swing" of the unit, is VERY influenced when it is slaved to a DAW.

If it is "slaved" that means it is using EXTERNAL timing, it's getting it's "timing" from the daw, so that is the DAWS timing and SWING that you are hearing. That isn't the MPC timing that you are listening to.

Lampdog wrote:
If it is "slaved" that means it is using EXTERNAL timing, it's getting it's "timing" from the daw, so that is the DAWS timing and SWING that you are hearing. That isn't the MPC timing that you are listening to.

My hero!

Fellas...are you really sure about this? MMC only controls the MPCs transport..play, stop, FF and RW.

An external sequencer triggering the MPC should not effect the MPCs swing or timing. It should only start or stop the MPC and also control the tempo. Your MPC tracks should remain intact.

dablunt wrote:

Lampdog wrote:
If it is "slaved" that means it is using EXTERNAL timing, it's getting it's "timing" from the daw, so that is the DAWS timing and SWING that you are hearing. That isn't the MPC timing that you are listening to.

My hero!

good drunken photoshop cat, cracks me up everytime I see it.

jahrome wrote:Fellas...are you really sure about this? MMC only controls the MPCs transport..play, stop, FF and RW.

An external sequencer triggering the MPC should not effect the MPCs swing or timing. It should only start or stop the MPC and also control the tempo. Your MPC tracks should remain intact.

the mpc will not play if i don't select MTC transmit in Logic....!

try it, with a swing of 60% and record as audio, both when it is slave and when its free. you'll hear, the difference is huge. the swing when slaved to logic is exagerated and ridiculous, and when the mpc is master its beautiful.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/sync_mmc_mtc_smpte.htm

MIDI Clock Sync, SMPTE, MTC and MMC
How machines stay in sync
by Tweak

The problem
Audio and music happens in time. Many of your machines have an internal clock keeping track of what time it is supposed to do something. These clocks, unless made to receive code from an external clock, will be totally out of sync with other machines. That is the problem. The solution is to make all your machines share the same timebase, so if you were to ask any one machine what time it was it would say, "we are exactly at 0 hours, 1 minutes, 40 seconds, and 018 frames into the song, right, mmm, NOW!" Or in sequencer speak, we are 00:01:40:018. You've probably seen that display on your sequencer. Yes it is more than just telling you how long your song is, it is actually a representation of the timecode referencing your sequencer's internal clock. All the methods we are about to discuss, SMPTE, MTC, MIDI Clock Sync, SPP and MMC are the methods we can use to get our devices to share a single clock source.

MMC stands for MIDI Machine Control. Its designed for controlling the transport on tape and multitrack machines. If the multi-track was the MMC master, you press "play" on the multitrack, the sequencer will start. Or in the example below, if you make the sequencer the MMC master, pressing play will start the multi-track. MMC really just controls the transport and sends a locate point--not the timing; its just a switch that says "Go here, then start, stop, rewind, fast forward". What you do to complete the picture is send MTC from the MMC slave.

MTC stands for MIDI Time Code. Its a series midi messages that tells other devices what time it is at any given moment in hours, minutes, seconds and frames. MTC is simply understood as a conversion of SMPTE timecode that goes down a MIDI cable. It is sent in quarter frame intervals as MIDI system exclusive data.

MIDI Clock is yet another option, not to be confused with MTC, though they are similar. Originally, MIDI clock sync was just a bunch of blips that told devices when to start, stop, continue and follow the tempo of the master device. This is perfect for making synths and samplers synchronize their LFOs, and effects delay time. It also passes tempo which is important when syncing arpeggiators, drum loops and other time based sounds.


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"Fellas...are you really sure about this? MMC only controls the MPCs transport..play, stop, FF and RW. "
I was thinking in MTC.

akido wrote:
the mpc will not play if i don't select MTC transmit in Logic....!

try it, with a swing of 60% and record as audio, both when it is slave and when its free. you'll hear, the difference is huge. the swing when slaved to logic is exagerated and ridiculous, and when the mpc is master its beautiful.

Which MPC and OS are you using?

If you are just recording audio, Logic or any other DAW shouldn't have any impact on the recorded audio....

jahrome wrote:

akido wrote:
the mpc will not play if i don't select MTC transmit in Logic....!

try it, with a swing of 60% and record as audio, both when it is slave and when its free. you'll hear, the difference is huge. the swing when slaved to logic is exagerated and ridiculous, and when the mpc is master its beautiful.

Which MPC and OS are you using?

If you are just recording audio, Logic or any other DAW shouldn't have any impact on the recorded audio....

mpc2500 and latest os.


of course there is an impact if it s slaved to a DAW! its more evident when using a lot of swing.

record both ways (as audio, 1-slaved to logic and 2-mpc as master), and look at the wave, compare, AB, you'll see/hear!


if its running wild (free) its perfect. its just a little inconvenient to adapt to a movie scoring workflow though...

mpc2500 and latest os.


of course there is an impact if it s slaved to a DAW! its more evident when using a lot of swing.

record both ways (as audio, 1-slaved to logic and 2-mpc as master), and look at the wave, compare, AB, you'll see/hear!


if its running wild (free) its perfect. its just a little inconvenient to adapt to a movie scoring workflow though...

I am saying the direct opposite.

It shouldn't impact it at that wayl, if I am understanding you correctly. MTC and MIDI clock should be telling your MPC to play at a certain tempo and in sync with the other sequenecer. It shouldn't be fooling with the swing or groove. If it is, something else is going on.

Now with the current OS..setting the MPC as SLAVE and MASTER will produce different results. As a MASTER, the MPC recorded audio will be dead on. But as a SLAVE, it will appear to be off a few milli-seconds. It will appear that your MPC drums/tracks are actually playing a little early in regards to what's in Logic.

Now..what are you using to SYNC? MTC, MMC, or Midi clock? And are you using the same method to sync the MPC as a SLAVWE or MASTER? I ask, because of the thread where most of us cannot get the MPC to act as an MTC SLAVE...only a MASTER, when using OS 1.21.

every method, both ways.

when it is slaved to logic, with mtc, it swings in a bad way.


EDIT: my mistake, not MTC, it doesn't work...

So you can get the MPC to be an MTC SLAVE? Several of us tried and cannot get the MPC to SLAVE to MTC only MIDI Clock and MMC.

Are you sure you don't have MTC and MMC selected? Which would probably be the MPC sync'd to MMC and not really MTC (which from reports doesn't work).

jahrome wrote:So you can get the MPC to be an MTC SLAVE? Several of us tried and cannot get the MPC to SLAVE to MTC only MIDI Clock and MMC.

Are you sure you don't have MTC and MMC selected? Which would probably be the MPC sync'd to MMC and not really MTC (which from reports doesn't work).

u r right, there are some weird issues. mpc sync in mode will be off, and if i select midi clock out in logic, the mpc starts syncing...etc


plus, once it is slaved, the mpc won't play, even with all its sync settings off. a restart is then necessary.

so to be clear, the MPC won't sync to MTC here too...

it is becoming confusing... why is mtc not working? a machine sold for 2000$ cad...! unbelievable...