Maschine vs MPC 4000

olavi3000 wrote:True.

But praising chopping / sample edit details like it's the only thing which matters is kinda naive. No matter what you wanna do with the sample, in almost every case it's a lot faster with computer. This is just a plain fact. I'm not taking any sides, I'm just being objective.

The differences between MPC and Maschine goes a bit deeper than sample edit or chopping don't you think? Also, you tend to compare Maschine's OS to JJOS and I see that misleading. Not all the MPC users use JJOS, but in fact all the Maschine users use the same OS.

There are people (like myself) who have used older MPC than 1k, and I think it's reasonable to keep the discussion in objective level rather than taking the best parts from each Akai's model and comparing them to one device.

It's silly to make such statements in a forum dedicated to MPCs. If computers were faster, more efficent, etc than what we do with an MPC...most likely, none of use would be here. We still use MPCs and other hardware because computer programs and cheap controllers just can't duplicate what we have. Its your opinion that doing it with a computer is faster. I find that its the opposite. Not only do I find an MPC faster, I enjoy using an actual instrument.

The differences between an MPC and Maschine goes a bit deeper but the deeper functions are not being discussed here but at the NI Forum in numerous feature requests. As an MPC user, sampling and sample editing is very important. Talking about the JJ OS is not misleading since the majority of us around here are using that OS in our MPC 2500/1000s. I can't speak for the rest of the MPC 2500/1000 users around the globe nor do I care to. The Akai OS2 for the MPC 5000 is also far superior in sampling and sample editing as well as the MPC 4000. I gave specific examples about several MPCs all talking about sampling and sample editing. Maschine is not quite there yet.

Maschine's method of duplicating is the same method I have used in an MPC for over a decade. I pointed this out earlier. I no longer have to use this method when I use the JJ OS. Blue Haze, JJ's English isn't that great and the online manual doesn't show everything. The fact is, you can freely set the number of slices. It is not fixed at 16 or 32. If you want 23 phrases, simply dial in 23. No need to duplicate anything. All the slices are instantly mapped to 1-64 available pads. No need to duplicate, copy, paste, etc anything.

It sillys that I have to keep reminding folks that this is a comparison thread about MPCs and similar products. It is not a comparison thread about someones' workflow. No one is claiming a piece of gear is perfect and that there are no other tools. But we are comparing two products. One is great at sampling and sample editing, the other barely compares to samplers created 10 years ago. Fact. I own/use both Maschine, MPC 1000/5000, and a Fantom G. I am not trying to convince anyone they should own these devices. But I always speak openly and freely about what I like or dislike about these units...unlike so many here.

I agree.

Btw, the computer reference was more like physical fact. Processor chips in laptops are faster than in MPC's. I have used a tons of hours just to do basic editing inside XL. With Maschine, however, it's still fun and intuitive but more important its faster. I am pretty hectic guy. I can't stand waiting so faster workflow is a big plus in my books.

But overall I agree what you said.

I am still searching for the "fun" factor in Maschine but as of today, it won't come until after the New Year when OS 1.6 is released.

Askia Shaheed wrote:I am still searching for the "fun" factor in Maschine but as of today, it won't come until after the New Year when OS 1.6 is released.

Fun is in the mind of the beholder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEb8t4ez ... re=channel

I have to either apologize to Blue Haze or another forum member regarding a specific about slicing on Maschine (too many posts/pages to find the specific person). Previously, I indicated that Maschine can only slice into 4, 8, 16, or 32 slices. This is true when using SPLIT MODE. A previous forum member wrote that when you use GRID with a LENGTH of 16, you can slice a sample into as many as 128 slices if needed. This is correct. You can slice into more than 32 slices using these methods, but the length is still fixed at 4th (64 slices), 8th (128 slices), 16th (256 slices), 32th (512 slices).

However, my major complaint is that when you are editing these slices, you cannot use an external keyboard to select the slices for further editing. You have to use the left and right cursor keys and the pads to gain access to all the slices for editing. A more efficient method will allow users to select slices from an external midi keyboard. This method will provide faster editing.

Apology accepted. All and all I`m pretty much back on the 4k. Using my qlinks and layering via the ole 4k zones like the 5k except I`m changing all 4 layers tuning, start, level at the same via ext as source, zone etc as destination via program modulation which the 4k use shines on. Maschine has it own program modulation just I have not got into it as much.

Regarding the slice features. I personally prefer manually regardless of whatever gear I use as I can grab the phrase completely and whole without messing up the notes. I learned this from the knocksquared cat as a classic tech mentioned by Easy Mo Bee, Primo, and a gang of others.

However if a samplist has a long sample loaded up and he or she has figured out all of the notes then auto slicing with the added keys would be great tool to use I wouldn`t knock that.

I prefer manual slicing as well. However...when I am listening to a sound I want to sample, I get an rough idea of how many regions that I want to slice it in. So once I get it into my sampler, I do a preliminary chop with the number of regions I think I need. Then I manually adjust each chopped region as I see fit.

With Maschine, I can do this but still stuck with a specific number of regions as I indicated earlier. Also, if I chop into more than 16 regions, I have to use the left/right cursor keys to get to a specific region (pad banks would be better). There is no way to quickly select a region from an external MIDI keyboard so I can edit it. To me, this is an oversight unless I am missing something. I can play any region from my keyboard. But while editing, I cannot press a key to call up the region assigned to that key. However, if I hit a pad, it will pull up the sample assigned to that pad where I can then begin editing.

With my Fantom G, I manually chop my using "ADD POINT" which creates individual slice markers. But with its latest OS, I am limited to 16 regions when initially chopping. The work around is chopping regions into smaller regions. Then going into Multisample Edit to assign all these regions to keys. This is a bit time consuming. The older Fantom X and MV-8800, allows you to chop samples into more regions and quickly assign them to a program or patch. The drawback is memory. The Fantom workstations have memory limits. And creating files that use a lot of memory increases the load/save times significantly. If the Fantom G used the same memory saving functions like the ASR and JJ OS non-destructive chop and increased number of regions I can chop samples into on a single pass, I probably wouldn't be in this thread.

Using JJ OS in the MPC 2500/1000, you quickly dial in a preliminary number of slices. Then you manually edit the slice start/end points. When using non-destructive chopping, modifying the start/end points of one region doesn't impact the adjacent region. When using destructive chopping, if you change the end point of one sample enough that it runs into the start point of the adjacent sample, the two adjacent regions automatically combine to form a single region for further editing. AWESOME!

I made a suggestion to NI to allow users to select regions via external MIDI device like my MPC 5000 not just the pads. I also suggested a combination of the features above which would make editing samples much improved with what we have today.

If I had these sample editing tools in Maschine, I would have no need for my Fantom G and would only use my MPCs to sequence until Maschine's sequencer is up to par...that is another story though.

Nothing chops like the MV. Sample what you want, break them into pieces and lace them to the pads, simple as that. I'm sure there are apps that can work as fast but for a machine kind of dated, I'm still blown.

Ill-Green wrote:Nothing chops like the MV. Sample what you want, break them into pieces and lace them to the pads, simple as that. I'm sure there are apps that can work as fast but for a machine kind of dated, I'm still blown.

not to mention automatically recording patches from external synth keyboards. that is neat to have in a machine like the mv... I know they had something like that on the open labs machines.

Ill-Green wrote:Nothing chops like the MV. Sample what you want, break them into pieces and lace them to the pads, simple as that. I'm sure there are apps that can work as fast but for a machine kind of dated, I'm still blown.

Nearly every sampler mentioned in this thread does exactly that....

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Ill-Green wrote:Nothing chops like the MV. Sample what you want, break them into pieces and lace them to the pads, simple as that. I'm sure there are apps that can work as fast but for a machine kind of dated, I'm still blown.

Nearly every sampler mentioned in this thread does exactly that....

But they don't do it as well. The MV has the best chopping system bar one. In fact it's the only that offer a mix between chop modes. You can choose any of the chop modes and still add manual points. Not only that, the user can fine tune the chop by hearing what in front of the chop without playing the pad the precedes it. you can also scroll through the sample like dropping a needle through vinyl to find chops. There's not much out there that does all of that in one package- and it's all nondestructive.

moyphee wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Ill-Green wrote:Nothing chops like the MV. Sample what you want, break them into pieces and lace them to the pads, simple as that. I'm sure there are apps that can work as fast but for a machine kind of dated, I'm still blown.

Nearly every sampler mentioned in this thread does exactly that....

But they don't do it as well. The MV has the best chopping system bar one. In fact it's the only that offer a mix between chop modes. You can choose any of the chop modes and still add manual points. Not only that, the user can fine tune the chop by hearing what in front of the chop without playing the pad the precedes it. you can also scroll through the sample like dropping a needle through vinyl to find chops. There's not much out there that does all of that in one package- and it's all nondestructive.

I am sure you are talking about those preview before buttons (preview to and from) ... I dont think I really remember seeing that feature really except on the mv... it is true that it's a cool feature.

moyphee wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Ill-Green wrote:Nothing chops like the MV. Sample what you want, break them into pieces and lace them to the pads, simple as that. I'm sure there are apps that can work as fast but for a machine kind of dated, I'm still blown.

Nearly every sampler mentioned in this thread does exactly that....

But they don't do it as well. The MV has the best chopping system bar one. In fact it's the only that offer a mix between chop modes. You can choose any of the chop modes and still add manual points. Not only that, the user can fine tune the chop by hearing what in front of the chop without playing the pad the precedes it. you can also scroll through the sample like dropping a needle through vinyl to find chops. There's not much out there that does all of that in one package- and it's all nondestructive.

What do you mean exactly? Maschine does not chop better than MPC 5000, 2500, or the 1000. Under the JJ OS, the MPC 2500/1000 allows you to hear what is in front of the chop without playing the pad that precedes it.

I love the way the MV and the Fantom G allows you to enter markers for chopping. This is like my biggest feature request for Akai MPC 5000 as well as Maschine. But this feature alone is not enough to make me go out and buy an MV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36qKkQhFtbM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7wZD1ewxB4

There are many ways to chopping records into phrases and one shot samples. There is the auto chopping on the newer mpcs and there is the manual way of just sampling the parts you need piece by piece into the mpc. Both are valid depending on the user.

Cats using the 4k skipping over the region chopping features cuz they sample piece by piece. As they don`t really need it auto chopping. Manually chopping is a preference for most old school cats and alot of pros too. Auto chopping is a great feature but not necessary to make great music if you don`t have it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z73Ccodf ... re=related

You may notice or not but Pete Rock isn`t talking about chopping by zones on the 2xl. He is sampling in piece by piece. Yeah it may be time consuming for the 2000 generation but not so much for a scratch dj like Pete and others to cut in the pieces on a record by hand. That is the dj factor overlooked by some thinking that auto chopping is really important to chop but a phrase.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM3LX5EA ... re=related

One of my fav on youtube still working on the 2K showing how it is done with no autochopping, regions or nothing just his ears and truncating.




And of course maschine sampling in phrases piece by piece like the mpc before with no autochopping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYhKLkZLOjw



The point of all of this is the producers didn`t use auto chopping even though most besides the 2k had it but they prefer to make their chops manually. Auto chopping is a choice not a necessity to use a drum sampler.




Actually the real deal isn`t if one gear is better than the other. It is whether the user is good with one or the other. Whether it fits you the user or not. Each producer shown bang on the gear they had.

Why does this thread keep turning into a tutorial about work-arounds everybody knows about?