video rant Ren vs Maschine Studio what do u think?

truthfully, IMHO I agree with his opinion about the difference in the tightness of the sequencers between the two (yes I have owned both products). what do you guys think?peace

Very true!

I think he is a douchebag. Like all those dudes who film their opinion
on this. I don't give a **** what he thinks. He is a nobody...

He makin money,hahaha, not by makin music, only through his wack Youtube channels.

peace

really? Is there a proove it is so (beside your experience)? An A/B test? Ren and Maschine with the same samples, the same sequence running on the same computer and get recorded and visibly analyzed and measurements on samplebasis?

I would like to see WHAT the difference is.

peace

The MPC sequencer is by far it's strongest asset.

The swing on Maschine is completely different sounding to the MPC. Not bad, just different.

Coz wrote:The MPC sequencer is by far it's strongest asset.

The swing on Maschine is completely different sounding to the MPC. Not bad, just different.

Just to clear up things. I'm not talking about the hardware MPC. In the video he say MPC Ren is "tighter" than Maschine. Now I'm interested in measurements. Is the Snare on the 2 and 4 and the Kick on the 1 and 3 and all the stuff inbetween different when used with the same samples, the same tempo, the same PC. And if there is a difference how much is it and whats the reason.

peace

peterpiper wrote:In the video he say MPC Ren is "tighter" than Maschine. Now I'm interested in measurements. Is the Snare on the 2 and 4 and the Kick on the 1 and 3 and all the stuff inbetween different when used with the same samples, the same tempo, the same PC. And if there is a difference how much is it and whats the reason.

peace

If they were both hard quantised with no swing they would sound identical. The difference comes with the swing algorithms and how notes are nudged in Maschine.

I'm sure Hellfire could elaborate a bit further.

Yeah, he is A-1 douchebag material. He sells his 2500 for maschine and then never uses it until the 2.0 announcement

He is a shithead with an invalid point.

I'm not ragging on the guy but neither sequencer is being pushed to it's limit in any regard. I mean, there's no Jermy Ellis or Fingers Haynes type sh!t being recorded.

The other issue is that if don't understand PPQN it's hard to make a specific argument. This reminds of dudes loving the 96 PPQN resolution on older MPCs because it made them sound tighter than they actually were. Then they got on to higher resolution sequencers only to have their own rotten timing exposed- They then blamed the machine.

i would like to see some scientific tests done re: 'tightness' and swing as well.

so many people seriously over-think and misunderstand swing - its not some crazy mathematical formula...its just nudging notes in a particular direction.

not to say it couldnt be mis-coded / misunderstood by the developers who then might 'fake' it - but a note 50% between two other notes should be the same across any circumstance.

there are definitely differences in feel between sequencers....at least I think so.

peterpiper wrote:really? Is there a proove it is so (beside your experience)? An A/B test? Ren and Maschine with the same samples, the same sequence running on the same computer and get recorded and visibly analyzed and measurements on samplebasis?

I would like to see WHAT the difference is.

peace

The difference is the way sequencing feels. It's not really something you can explain. It's something you have to use both to understand. It's not about being able to get the same end result with either product, which you can. It's all in the feeling of the sequencing. The MPC is unmatched. The Ren feels exactly like any hardware MPC. Maschine feels like sequencing inside a DAW.

Coz wrote:

peterpiper wrote:In the video he say MPC Ren is "tighter" than Maschine. Now I'm interested in measurements. Is the Snare on the 2 and 4 and the Kick on the 1 and 3 and all the stuff inbetween different when used with the same samples, the same tempo, the same PC. And if there is a difference how much is it and whats the reason.

peace

If they were both hard quantised with no swing they would sound identical. The difference comes with the swing algorithms and how notes are nudged in Maschine.

I'm sure Hellfire could elaborate a bit further.

Not exactly! Something about the MPC just knows exactly where you meant to put a note when you play an off note while quantize is on. Sometimes Maschine doesn't put the note where you intended.

Also, the MPC doesn't quantize the notes WHILE you're playing them when quantize is on. It quantizes the notes after the recording loops. So you can play really loose while quanitizing is on and the notes will play back EXACTLY when you hit the pad. With Maschine, the sequencer records WHILE you play the notes when quantize is on. So if you play loose, it's gonna sound really **** up because the sequencer is quantizing the notes as you play the pads, which is really awkward feeling. And this can be even worse when you have swing applied to the pad since swing is real time.

Regarding swing, Maschine has a LOT more different swing settings than the MPC. This can be good and bad. While the Maschine has many different swing setting variations, the MPC is much simpler and you can usually find your desired setting with the simple settings combined with the earliness/lateness feature. Maschine's settings are vast and can achieve the same effect as MPC swing, but it's pretty complicated for most users, IMO. Good thing about Maschine though is you can apply swing without quantizing the track. On the MPC, if you add swing, it will quantize the notes.

The other thing is in the transport controls. The MPC transport controls are AIR TIGHT. If I press play or step back/forward by bar, the MPC is instant and you can press the shit as fast as Araab and it will keep up. The Maschine is a lot slower to react and if you press the buttons fast, it will miss some of the hits.

Anyway, as far as note recording, when quantize is OFF, both products are pretty much the same, excluding the transport. It's sequencing with quantize on where the MPC really has the advantage. Also, nudging on the MPC seems a bit finer than Maschine to me!

There's nothing scientific about it or nothing you can AB and provide an example of. You have to actually experience it for yourself!

DJ Hellfire wrote:...Something about the MPC just knows exactly where you meant to put a note when you play an off note while quantize is on. Sometimes Maschine doesn't put the note where you intended.

Also, the MPC doesn't quantize the notes WHILE you're playing them when quantize is on. It quantizes the notes after the recording loops. So you can play really loose while quanitizing is on and the notes will play back EXACTLY when you hit the pad. With Maschine, the sequencer records WHILE you play the notes when quantize is on. So if you play loose, it's gonna sound really **** up because the sequencer is quantizing the notes as you play the pads, which is really awkward feeling. And this can be even worse when you have swing applied to the pad since swing is real time.

Regarding swing, Maschine has a LOT more different swing settings than the MPC. This can be good and bad. While the Maschine has many different swing setting variations, the MPC is much simpler and you can usually find your desired setting with the simple settings combined with the earliness/lateness feature. Maschine's settings are vast and can achieve the same effect as MPC swing, but it's pretty complicated for most users, IMO. Good thing about Maschine though is you can apply swing without quantizing the track. On the MPC, if you add swing, it will quantize the notes.

The other thing is in the transport controls. The MPC transport controls are AIR TIGHT. If I press play or step back/forward by bar, the MPC is instant and you can press the shit as fast as Araab and it will keep up. The Maschine is a lot slower to react and if you press the buttons fast, it will miss some of the hits.

Anyway, as far as note recording, when quantize is OFF, both products are pretty much the same, excluding the transport. It's sequencing with quantize on where the MPC really has the advantage. Also, nudging on the MPC seems a bit finer than Maschine to me!

There's nothing scientific about it or nothing you can AB and provide an example of. You have to actually experience it for yourself!

this is a really good explanation - thanks for that. that first sentence is something i noticed as well...and its very likely that figuring out the best place to 'snap' an off-grid note to is different across softwares.
also, the quantise while playing would definitely have a huge impact on 'feel'.
the combination of those two things, plus the fact that maschine and mpc use different measurements to describe swing (50% on mpc is 0% on machine) could explain a lot

To honest the sequencer on Maschine always makes me think about the MV.
It has a a lot more that it can do with swing etc but at the same time it also can create an overly complicated workflow.

Anyone who has owned either Maschine or the MV and figured out how to make the sequencer work more like the MPC knows it can actually be done.
Unfortunately they also know it's not really worth the effort it takes to do it when the MPC will simply do it.
No need to reinvent the wheel.

The twist to the story is that there are a lot of genres out there now that actually are easier to do on Maschine, FL Studio, Reason etc so there are people out there happy with the way the sequencer works.

Neither is really a reason for a YouTube rant or anything like that but I guess he needed his little moment.