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By Avasopht Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:48 pm
I decided to get an MPC One, but the pricing structure does seem a little self-destructive.

At least for my needs:
1. Already have a huge collection of sounds.
2. Just wants portable hardware with solid instrument sounds (where I wouldn't miss Korg Collection / Xpand!2 too much).

Primarily I just wanted something portable with a strong selection of instruments I could use without a computer that I can carry around (I already have Komplete Ultimate, instrument Refills, Korg Collection, etc.)

I wasn't really feeling Zenology. They're great sounds, but their portable offerings like MC-707 aren't as solid when compared to Maschine and the MPC line.

MPC One + MPC Instrument Collection (£1100 / $1348) (MPC-IC from now on)

Anyways, ... MPC-IC raises the cost to a total price where I'm not as keen on the USB2 bus speeds (it's undermining the speed of the SD card I got for it). So right away it might deter a first-time buy of MPC One + MPC-IC.

And I wouldn't want to sell Komplete Ultimate (or anything else with USB2 and no wifi ;)).

Their choice of a USB2 bus while disabling Wifi and audio interface support undermines its potential value.

MPC Live II + MPC-IC (£1368 / $1,676)

A little heavier and not that much more expensive than the MPC One, it's still got me questioning the decision, plus we're quite a bit more than a Maschine+, and I do have to question the purchase a little.

On its own, the MPC Live II is an easy value offering compared to Maschine+ (even if its instrument selection isn't as comprehensive).

But £1368 is a difficult sell.

MPC Keys 61
If you are happy to lug around a heavy keyboard with you, the MPC Key 61 seems a good value offering.

I like the MPC-IC sounds. I've seen some criticism of the sound of the library, but the Korg Triton only had something like a 32MB or 64MB ROM, while the more recent workstations tend to have about 2-5GB ROMs. They do a lot of work to reduce the sample size needed (and aren't just playing back a long wave file with one long loop-point like your 100 GB instrument libraries).

Nah ... it's comparable (superior even) to the Triton sound, while holds its own against the larger libraries. No, it doesn't have complex scripting, but neither does the latest Korg workstations, instead, they've followed the Triton formula and focused on producing strong signature sounds.

But I don't want to have to carry that around with me. I've done it before when I used to carry an MPC3000 and a Triton LE every month or so. I did that for about a year before going back to software.

This is directed to their PR/Marketing. I really feel they've not quite thought this one through. And I say this not as someone who feels disgruntled by the pricing. I can just feel the gears moving in my mind saying what every first-time buyer is going to be thinking as well.

The MPC One / Live / Touch / Studio / X offering is already complicated enough. I'm sure there are tons of posts asking whether you can use the same tracks on them, .. which one is the latest one, ... what the difference is, etc. etc. etc.

I think they have a very strong offering. I've already got a Dell Micro for a portable PC setup, but I love editing patches with the touch screen and the uber low latencies the standalone offers (that I doubt the Maschine+ matches).

The fact I like the MPC line despite having a pretty decent portable setup speaks volumes about the strength of its offering. But I can't help but feel a little apprehensive about forking out an additional £500 to complete its instrument offering when I've already invested in a complete instrument lineup.

It just makes me question the purchase. Is it really worth it?

And I am considering returning it until there's a sale for MPC-IC, just because what I already have is so strong.

I'd like Akai to make the decision to stick with the MPC line easy to make.

--

p.s. hello everyone (this is my first post).
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By MPC-Tutor Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:12 am
Anyways, ... MPC-IC raises the cost to a total price where I'm not as keen on the USB2 bus speeds (it's undermining the speed of the SD card I got for it).
Their choice of a USB2 bus while disabling Wifi and audio interface support undermines its potential value.

The MPC One has the exact same audio interface support as all the other MPCs, I'm sitting here now with an Arturia audiofuse studio connected to my MPC One's USB port. and SD card speeds in the MPC One are identical to the SD Card speeds in other MPCs, so no problems there.

Buying Akai's new instrument plugins is not a requirement, just extra options, you'll find that the included free synths are good enough for a wide range of synth needs - hype, tubesynth and Odyssey are very good synths, and you can just grab a few keygroup-based expansions to fill any voids you have. For example (shameless plug): https://www.mpc-samples.com/section.php ... xpansions/.

You can also autosample all your favourite Korg , Xpand and Kontakt instruments. Plus you can create your own instruments using single cycle waveforms and other samples.

https://www.mpc-tutor.com/subtractive-s ... beginners/

The MPC is still ultimately a fairly powerful sampler, despite Akai's more recent push towards it being a preset machine.

But yes, those Akai plugins will of course be magically half price sooner or later, in fact they already were very briefly when Akai accidentally left a 50% discount code active for a few hours.
By Avasopht Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:00 am
Thanks for the detailed response.

I do want to stress, however, that I'm talking about the value offering of the Instrument Collection to 1st-time MPC buyers.

Just its value proposition and not whether you can work around it by using something else, whether you need MPC-IC, or how good Hype synth is, etc.

Just the value proposition and how it appeared to me as a 1st-time buyer (who has an existing sizeable library), how it is going to be evaluated/compared, and how it might be pricing itself out of the no-brainer territory it could so easily dominate.

MPC-Tutor wrote:The MPC One has the exact same audio interface support as all the other MPCs, I'm sitting here now with an Arturia audiofuse studio connected to my MPC One's USB port. and SD card speeds in the MPC One are identical to the SD Card speeds in other MPCs, so no problems there.

My bad with the audio interface (pretty sure that's what I had read), but what I was getting at was that £1,000+ is still too much to be spending in 2022 when:
1. Wifi support is disabled (AFAIK this is running on a kernel with strong USB wifi support, so it has to be explicitly disabled/blocked ... ethernet port works though so it was pretty seamless).
2. Only USB2 slots (but SD card slot is pretty slow compared to what is possible with a USB3 SSD). Again, at this price point, that's a very bad proposition.

Remember, I'm talking about the value proposition of Instrument Collection to new buyers like myself. If you've already had an MPC One/Live/X for a few years, I'm sure you can appreciate it's a very different sales offering ;).

MPC-Tutor wrote:Buying Akai's new instrument plugins is not a requirement, just extra options, you'll find that the included free synths are good enough for a wide range of synth needs - hype, tubesynth and Odyssey are very good synths, and you can just grab a few keygroup-based expansions to fill any voids you have. For example (shameless plug): https://www.mpc-samples.com/section.php ... xpansions/


Yes, Hype synth is pretty good. But bear in mind I'm talking about the value proposition of MPC-IC for new owners, not just whether MPC One is good out of the box.

That being said, while MPC-IC would make me feel comfortable working without my existing library (NI KU13 CE, etc.), the same could not be said about Hype synth ;) It's just not a complete enough replacement for:
1. Something like a Korg Triton (does Hype even have guitar patches).
2. Air Xpand!2
3. Roland XV-5080 + expansions (which MPC-IC beats IMO).

MPC-Tutor wrote:You can also autosample all your favourite Korg , Xpand and Kontakt instruments. Plus you can create your own instruments using single cycle waveforms and other samples.

https://www.mpc-tutor.com/subtractive-s ... beginners/

The MPC is still ultimately a fairly powerful sampler, despite Akai's more recent push towards it being a preset machine.

But yes, those Akai plugins will of course be magically half price sooner or later, in fact they already were very briefly when Akai accidentally left a 50% discount code active for a few hours.


Again, I'm talking specifically about the value proposition of the Instrument Collection.

But keygroup-based expansions or autosampling won't really fill the gap as they incur a huge RAM penalty if you need velocity layers and multisampling, which matters with 2GB of RAM. Fabric wouldn't exist if autosampling was a complete 1:1 replacement, especially given MPC One comes with the Xpand!2 VST ;)

Autosample the 32 MB Korg Triton patches and you're looking at about 2-3 GB of data ;) Now add in the expansions and it'll probably be a good 7-15 GB.

Although I suppose just sampling the ROM samples directly would use up much less space while also being better samples to use anyway ...
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By MPC-Tutor Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:18 pm
I agree that it's a pricey combo, but it does assume that it's somehow a required purchase (which I'm sure Akai would love people to think!), but my point is that it simply isn't a requirement at all, so any discussion about the value proposition of 'MPC + Akai instrument plugins' should also look at the alternatives. And one alternative is to use the built in synths and purchase professionally made keygroup instruments, or make your own using the sampler or autosampler.

One instance of Stage piano uses approx 7% ram in an MPC One, so don't assume these plugins are not memory-thirsty. For comparison, my sampled grand piano from Piano Suite uses similar ram (but has more velocity layers).

Autosampling can be memory thirsty, but not if you learn how all the tricks, e.g. https://www.mpc-tutor.com/mpc-bible-tut ... tosampler/. For a synth keygroup program, there is rarely any need to exceed 25MB in my experience. It might not be a complete clone, but you can often use the MPC's own in-built features such as velocity sensitive filters to avoid having to multisample additional layers etc

But for a first timer I would say, just buy the MPC model that fits your needs and see how you get on with it using the content inside it along with whatever samples you choose to feed it. Then decide whether you need to buy plugins, keygroups, kits etc. It just doesn't have to be a decision that you need to make at the same time that you purchase the MPC.

Plus there's a trial for all those plugins, try them out and see if you even like the sounds. There's no point in buying Stage Piano if you don't like the core sound of the acoustic pianos inside, but perhaps there's a third party piano keygroup nails the 'exact' sound you need, or maybe you just need to autosample your favourite VST piano. Or maybe you want all of these options for a wide range of piano sounds inside your MPC.

BTW, remember you are limited to 8 plugin instances in standalone.
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By NearTao Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:11 pm
The problem with sampling the Korg Triton ROM samples only is that you're missing out on a lot of the effects. You can simulate a number of them in the MPC, but there are plenty of things that are not the same and don't make a good facsimile on the MPC. So the tradeoff comes down to, how accurate do you want the sound to be, versus how much you just want any sound.

For me at least, ripping the ROMs for the Triton only gets you a small percentage of the sound for most of the programs and combi's. In most cases creating those monster 3-10gb expansions for the MPC of the Triton certainly uses a lot of memory, but you also get "that sound" if it is what you're looking for.

There's no right or wrong way to go about it per se, and it really depends on what your end goals are.
By Avasopht Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:32 am
NearTao wrote:For me at least, ripping the ROMs for the Triton only gets you a small percentage of the sound for most of the programs and combi's. In most cases creating those monster 3-10gb expansions for the MPC of the Triton certainly uses a lot of memory, but you also get "that sound" if it is what you're looking for.


I bought a Reason Refill years back where they sampled the patches without effects, and it only came to 2GB.

The raw PCM ROM is only 32, so it shouldn't require any more than 1GB (since you can't directly access them, and the basic TRITON tones may have multiple waves).

The MPC has good enough effects to replace the Korg ones.

---

You can definitely get great instrument sounds without any of these plugs (though I got the MPC Instrument Collection for cheap). I will do some auto-sampling to fill in the few gaps (e.g. reed and acoustic bass).

Would be nice if they added Xpand!2 as they've already created an interface for the MPC touchscreens ...
By chrisroland Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:58 am
if you're a hobbyist/bedroom warrior, yeah paying full price for the entire Instrument Collection is a heavy lift. but (1) almost nobody is paying full price for all of them if they don't really want to -- Akai puts individual pieces of the collection on sale regularly and you can fill in any gaps a la carte for far less than the theoretical maximum price -- with this year's Black Friday sale, I've gotten everything but Stage EP and the new Air lo-fi FX for under $200 I think; but also (2) if you're serious about producing, it's just a cost of doing business. they're solid tools to have in your sound design box and do provide value to DAWless users (like me) who now don't have to muck about with keygroup programs or multisamples to get pianos, strings, choirs, etc. -- just dial up the right plugin preset on a given track and Robert's your father's brother.
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By MPC-Tutor Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:00 am
Avasopht wrote:[I will do some auto-sampling to fill in the few gaps (e.g. reed and acoustic bass).


Free acoustic bass here ('The Reaper'):
https://www.mpc-samples.com/section.php ... xpansions/

Lots of reeds (and more contra bass) in this:
https://www.mpc-samples.com/product.php ... o-edition/
By Avasopht Sat Sep 30, 2023 8:41 pm
MPC-Tutor wrote:
Avasopht wrote:[I will do some auto-sampling to fill in the few gaps (e.g. reed and acoustic bass).


Free acoustic bass here ('The Reaper'):
https://www.mpc-samples.com/section.php ... xpansions/

Lots of reeds (and more contra bass) in this:
https://www.mpc-samples.com/product.php ... o-edition/


Oh nice. Only just saw this. Tbh, I've already sampled the stuff I have, but this is awesome as a free expansion